Splitting up the Exhibitionist/Voyeur section?

[eviltwin]

I've noticed that compared to the other photosections this section contains a huge amount of threads. There is usually more than one page of threads that have been added to in the last 24 hours.
It also contains a rather varied sort of pictures, exhibitionist and voyeur of course being different, but there is also a ton of threads from various nude events, from nude beaches etc.

This makes it a bit hard to follow at times, IMO.

I was wondering if perhaps it should be split up further, to make it easier to navigate?

I'm not sure what new sections should be added in that case, but perhaps one for nude events, one for beach stuff, and one for the rest, or something like that? Feel free to voice your opinions and suggestions, and of course, if the mods think this is completely unfeasible, or if people are happy with things the way they are, I'd like to hear that too.

I just feel that I'm not interested in all the things there, and I'm afraid I miss a bit because it's almost a chore to sort through the threads for my kind of stuff. A luxury problem for sure, but still.

What do you guys think?

[USAVegas]

Very good points Klondike. Your ideas seem reasonable.

I always wondered why the 1 Boob Flash thread was over at Upskirts & Downblouse, when 90% of the pix involves a woman lowering or raising her shirt to expose 1 breast. I always felt that it should be in the Exhibitionist & voyeur.

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by VR2

Very good points Klondike. Your ideas seem reasonable.

I always wondered why the 1 Boob Flash thread was over at Upskirts & Downblouse, when 90% of the pix involves a woman lowering or raising her shirt to expose 1 breast. I always felt that it should be in the Exhibitionist & voyeur.

excellent point. All flashing is exhibitionism, not voyeurism..

KLondike

[Klondike]

nipslips and other accidents are a category of pic not technically "voyeur" but rather accidental nudity. In otherwords, you are not a voyeur if you happen upon it. These pics go in upskirts and DB's and should remain there as long as the subject does not appear embarrassed. If one wanted to expand the forum title to include these, one could go with "voyeur peeks, slips and non-nudes". Any accident involving embarrassment goes in the ENF forum.

Voyeur peeks such as DB's and upskirts may just present themselves to you without you having to do anything, or you may move/position yourself to see them. hard to say - I call them all "voyeur peeks".

KLondike

[Pedro the Fisherman]

If I can put in my 'two pennyworth' (or should that be cents!), I would love to see a section that was 'Public Nudity and Naturism (or Nudism)' instead of what we have now.

When you see the poster's we have here (sorry, I am blowing my own trumpet a bit) this could be close to becoming one of the world's biggest forum for this type of images.

Just see how popular WNBR and Public nudity/Nudism is on other sites and we have possibly the world's biggest library of stuff like this on the OCC servers already, however.....

It's just not that easy to find amongst a lot of 'downblouse/nip slip/ flashing stuff' which really is voyeurism and fetishes in the old sense of the world.

Full nudity (ideally in public) is what I (and a lot of others) search and collect across the dear old WWW for hours on end, to have a repository clearly defined would be like finding 'El Dorado' for tens of thousand of fans like me.

We have the goods, we just need a place to keep them, labelled correctly!!

[Klondike]

One issue some might have with replacing the term "Exhibitionists" with a term like "Public" is that what do you do with flashing pics, private party pics, CMNF, etc? These pics kind of fall in the cracks and are quasi-public nudity pics to me. I'd want them to remain in E & V. The presence of any clothed onlookers or companions to me makes them close to being public nudity pics. And flashing is a well known exhibitionist activity associated with lots of public nudity events. Why not keep ALL flashing pics together in one forum?

thanks for your input Pedro!

KLondike

[Klondike]

Hey Pedro - I might add. Are you about to out-thank me?

It looks like its coming any day now.......

congratulations as you have definately earned it while I have been slacking off...

Klondike

[eviltwin]

I agree with your sentiments Klondike, I just gave one example of what I'd been thinking about, but your idea sounds good. I agree that there is a difference between voluntarily exposing your body, and being peeked at while you think you're not being seen.

The distinction between knowingly having onlookers and not is important to me as well, I find some of the more true voyeur videos and images to be good, but personally I prefer the exhibitionist part of it, whether it is among friends, in public or at the beach. I do however also see a difference between "true" public nudity, nudity among friends and at the beach, and the first two is a bit more my thing than the latter, although I enjoy it all.

If only one change were to be made, I'd support your suggestion completely, although you could also subdivide the "Public Nudity and Naturism"-section into two more sections (That is, one main section and two sub-sections), but that might not be necessary.
I do think that peeking- and voyeurism photos should be in the "Upskirt and downblouse"-section, though, and it could be renamed appropriately.

Glad to see I'm not the only one with these thoughts though, appreciate the input!

[Klondike]

thanks, Eviltwin -

I sort of wrestled with the "voyeur" aspect of the nude beach candid for a long time. Use to be I collected "friends shooting friends" type beach pics and "nude beach candids" and kept them well separated. But after a while, it seemed they were more alike than different. After all, friends shooting friends pics often have candid nudes showing in the background. And topless beaches in Europe today are crawling with cameras out in the open.

Meanwhile, "true" voyeur content goes back to the old days - the pre-nude beach days. It goes back to the 50's and earlier, with peeping toms and the loyal upskirt and DB crowd. It was also seedier or shall i say, less reputable. Not that I am not a fan of it - frankly, I adore nipslips and DB's especially. But this all goes together in my mind and is distinct from nude beach photography.

But I think many would agree that what the E and V forum is about, and why we collect and post there, has very little to do with voyeurism in the classic sense. It has much more to do with wanting to live and practice the naturist ideal, and with the idea that body freedom and nudity in public is right and natural. I think that is the main reason why I have long felt that having the word voyeur in the title is unfortunate. I totally understand how it got there, given the long standing use of the term "voyeur beach" to describe nude beach candids. And without my obsessive nitpicker's mentality, there it would probably stay forever. In fact, knowing how some mods feel about my tendencies, it probably WILL stay there forever... heh, heh.......I've been on the other side of the fence enough times to know how that goes. So......to the mods and everyone else - remember that I just had some extra time today to write, and that by next week I will have forgotten all about this. This is and will remain a wonderful forum regardless of how much I might wish to make it more "klondike-friendly". You've heard from me before, and you will hear from me again but you are the guys who actually have to DO things around here, not me. Anyway, thanks for listening..and thanks again for the great job that you do...


Klondike

[flanker7]

I agree with Klondike and Pedro, in that we should differentiate between public nudity--in all it's forms--and private nudity caught via spy cameras. While I don't want to come across as judgmental, I've always been personally uncomfortable with invasive voyeur pictures. I personally think there's a big difference between women willingly making their naked bodies visible in public, versus having their privacy invaded, though as Klondike noted above, something like beach photos are in a bit of a gray area, since while it's a public space, photography is usually discouraged.

However, in differentiating between the two (exhibitionism/public vs voyeur/private), I always apply the TAPILL (Take A Picture It Lasts Longer) Rule. If it was OK for me to look with my own eyes, then it's OK for me to me to have a picture of it so I can look at it later on. So while beach/naturist photography isn't necessarily inherently exhibitionistic, for me it passes the TAPILL rule.

However, if the subject did not want to be seen at all, then I probably don't want to have a picture of it.

Again, I don't want to criticize anyone who likes pure voyeur photos. Obviously, the transgressive nature is part of the thrill. If that's what you're into, that's cool. However, I do think it makes sense to split them up because the two are so different in many important ways.