CFNF Wrestling - Lisa Comshaw, etc.

[Cigar4u]

The following is what some consider the Citizen Kane of catfight scenes in mainstream movies.

It is my favorite CFNF fight scene of all time -- the fight on the beach between private eye Ginger, portrayed by Cheri Caffaro, and the brunette leader of a girl gang. The photos are stills from the film "Ginger," a sexploitation film from the early 1970s.

Before the two women locked up to do battle, the brunette added the stipulation that the loser had to be stripped naked. Ginger denuded her bikinied opponent and tied the woman up with her own swimsuit after an all-to-short tussle on a New Jersey beach.

I believe I got these photos from another category of this message board, but I'm not sure. Therefore I will apologize in advance if they have already been posted elsewhere in this forum.

[hemo101]

Hi Cigar!

Actually, if you scroll back up to page 6 you would see that I had already given my comment to your great work. Its right after your post of the two combatants' pics. Like I said before, your work is awsome and the epitome of how a very good catfight should be written. Your the man Cigar.

Hmm. . . come to think of it, reading your story makes me think it could not have happened that way, and is, therefore, nothing more than a fictional account of an otherwise true event, which is the death of Marilyn Monroe.

For one, how would it have been possible for Jackie to have ditched her secret service escorts and reach Marylin's house undetected? Considering their experience and expertise in what they do, I do not think it would have been possible for Jackie to have escaped her escorts, even if this event took place before 911.

Second we all know that JFK comes from good old Irish stock. Like all Irishmen then, he was sure to enjoy a good fight and other rambunctious sports, whether as a participant or spectator, in line with their sobriquet "the fighting Irish".

That being said I believe this is what really happened that night on the evening of Marylin Monroe's death.

It was true that Marylin maintained an ilicit torrid affair with JFK, with the knowledge of the first lady. It was also true that on the evening of Marylin's death, Jackie turned up in front of her door to confront the man stealing wh*r*. She, however, was not alone.

When Marylin heard a knock on her door, she eagerly opened it with a dazzling smile on her face to greet her lover. To her surprise, standing beside the most powerful man in the country was the first lady herself, who was none too happy being where she was. (For the sake of simplicity, lets just say that the women were dressed in exactly the same way they were in Cigar's epic tale.)

After a quick search by the secret service to ensure that the house was secure, Mr. President finally entered with the first lady in tow. After taking a seat in the sofa, JFK faced both his wife and mistress that he wanted to be entertained. With a mischievous grin he told both women he wanted to see them engage in a catfight, with the winner getting him and the first ladyship as the prize, while the loser. . .( at this point the president takes a bottle of what appears to be sleeping pills from his pocket). . . a one way ticket to lala land, after all he didn't want any scandal to leak out.

When Jackie first heard the terms of the fight, she adamantly refused to participate, telling the President he can have a divorce and marry the blonde strumpet instead. This only drew derissive laughter from her husband who tossed to her an envelope containing a number of surveillance photographs of her and a number of her secret lovers in very intimate and compromising positions, including a rather famous Greek shipping tycoon.

When Jackie continued to stare blankly at the proof of her indiscretions, JFK simply told her it wouldn't be possible for her just to get a divorce, as he wanted to see her suffer too, especially at the hands of his misstress, the new first lady in the event she wins.

Marylin just gave Jackie the sweetest and fakest of smiles.

As JFK continued to beam sweetly at Marilyn, you would never know that deep down he was seething with hatred towards her. For one, she had been seeing other men behind his back, and not too discreetly either. Second, she had started blabbing about their affair, letting some very intimate secrets out of the bag.( Like despite the president's extremely husky exterior, down there he was just disproportionally less endowed) Secrets which may ruin his career and rule out his chance for re-election.

Thus, although he no longer loved his wife, he loathed his mistress more. He had to make sure that she was the one who loses the fight.

Before he made the girls commence, JFK placed a call to his buddy and brother in law, Peter Lawford, who happens to be Marilyn's next door neighbor. He mumbled something into the phone before putting it down. He told Marilyn to fix be ready for company and to fix some drinks.

While Marilyn was busy mixing drinks a knock was heard on the door. JFK told her to answer it and took over from her. While she was otherwise occupied seeing who it was, JFK surreptitiously pulled out a vial of crushed sleeping pills and poured it unto one glass.

When Marilyn opened the door, she saw that it was her neighbor Peter as well as the rest of the rat pack. They all greeted her warmly as they entered and even gave a hearty greeting to Jackie as she stood quietly staring steadily at her husband. (I think she may have seen what he had done.)

JFK walked up to Marilyn with two drinks in hand. He handed her one and they both toasted, draining their respective glasses. It was only after Marilyn had drained her glass that JFK acknowledge his gang and told them to help themselves. After a few minutes of chitchat to allow his friends to get settled in (but more to have the pills take effect), JFK finally signalled for the fight to begin.

It went all the way Cigar had described, except that Jackie had no gun to intimidate her opponent and won the one sided match fair and square. Well to be fair, the match was not really that fair to begin with.

After the fight the secret service did their utmost best to sanitize the place. I believe pressure was subtly exerted on the authorities which was why the only findings they could come out with was that Marilyn's death was a suicide.

Things could have ended right there and then, except for a fact that JFK was himself shot later by a sniper who could or could not have been a sailor in a certain Greek Tycoon's fleet.

How's that for a conspiracy theory?

[hemo101]

Hi Cigar, I'm Back!

First of all, allow me to apologize for having offended you by saying the final stripping scene in the Angel vs. Jill video to be "boring".

Let me explain.

Although I remember reading that the fight was composed of five falls, when I entered youtube I found that there were a number Angel vs. Jill clips, and they were not consecutively in order. There were clips where Angel was in a red one piece suit and others where she is even more briefly attired than Jill. Unfortunately, one of the first clips I clicked on was the one where the stripping took place.

The scene started with Angel giving Jill a bear hug, and thats about it. No other action or reaction. Even when the bearhug ended, there was not much action since Jill was unconscious laying face first on the ground, and everything snug against the mat. Nada, nothing could be seen of her, nor any scenes of the winner taking her liberties on the vanquished, naked foe. Well, she did plant her feet on her naked foe's ass in a victory pose, but thats about it.

I admit things could have been different had I been able to watch the match sequentially and in all its entirety. Maybe then, I could have appreciated it more and therefore would not have said any harsh words. My most humblest apologies to you and womens world. Mea culpa.

Love your pics though. I hope you keep sharing. Me I've got tons more but like I said their watermarked.

Hey did you know that girl in your last series has a cmnf set? Tell me if youd like to gander so I could post it. Itr is definitely off topic, but who cares.

Oh BTW, do you have shots of the beach fight showing the fight itself and how the naked one got stripped?

[Cigar4u]

Helen and Frrio,

Oh my goodness, now it’s time for me to apologize.

I thought Frrio wrote the part about the shoe polish in the vagina or tripod marks on the floor. But on further review, I see it was Helen.

When you read my last written post, Frrio, you must have thought I had gone out of my mind.

Sorry for the mixup.

Helen, thank you for weighing in on our new Kennedy conspiracy theory. You added a great element to the story that mine was lacking – and one I could not figure out how to write in – that is a crowd of perverts to watch the spectacle.

In your writings, Helen, it is more than apparent that an extremely important element is for there to be a crowd to witness the humiliation of a one-sided CFNF fight, where – at least up until now – I have preferred a private one-on-one battle.

But, more and more, I am beginning to see the need for catfight scenarios to take place in front of several people or even large crowds. (That’s kind of hard to do, however, in small-budget videos.)

I guess the reason I have shied away from crowd scenarios is that I fear some sympathetic people in a crowd, seeing one woman begin to get embarrassed as her opponent starts to strip her, might move in to break up the fight or otherwise interfere before the loser is naked.

When it is one-on-one in a secluded place, however, the winner can spend as long as she wants humiliating her stripped foe in private.

What I like about your version of my story is that not only do you have JFK watching the battle – which, I agree, he probably would have gotten a real kick out of – you added the entire Rat Pack! That’s so cool.

I had read accounts that those guys allegedly were into many forms of debauchery, including having scantily clad starlets wrestle for them at pool parties.

Wouldn’t it have been so hot to see a young Angie Dickinson and Raquel Welch sqaure off for their sick entertainment? I can definiely picture it as really having happened that way.

Men have long been into the girl fight thing as evidenced by sexy girl boxing movies of the 1940s and titilating Bette Page lingerie wrestling movies of the 1950s.

(Again, only in recent years have some producers experimented with the CFNF endings to girl fights. Bette Page did not remove as much as one of her opponent’s shoes or stockings, let alone a bra or panties.)

Building upon that, I can remember an interview Pamela Anderson did where she said one night she got invited to the Playboy Mansion for a party called “Fight Night” and told the person who called her: “I’m not going to fight anyone for you!”

I can easily imagine Hef, with his sexually librated attitude coupled with young Hollywood hopefuls knocking down the mansion door to pose nude in his magazine, holding bikini catfight tournaments on the mansion lawn.

It’s not that far-fetched. I bet a number of gals would have participated for a chance to be next month’s centerfold.

Although I still like my version of the Jackie vs. Marilyn fight better, I also like your twist on it as well – it was fun and imaginative and logical.

I will take issue, however, with the part about Jackie not being able to ditch her Secret Service guards – at least that agency’s employees of the early 1960s. Question: Where were those diligent civil servants 15 months later when JFK’s brains were pouring out of a gaping bullet hole in his head? That would have been another bad day they had on the job.

Nevertheless, maybe sometime you and I can write a CFNF fight story together.

One of us could write the first five paragraphs, then the other the next five and alternate back and forth -- five two-to-three sentence paragraphs at a time -- by email.

We’d come up with a general overall theme. But we wouldn’t discuss beforehand what the other person would be writing so that neither one of us would know exactly where the story was heading or the outcome until the very end.

Then, if it doesn’t come out like pure crap, we could post the story on this thread of the message board. Even if it is disappointing to us, we may post it anyway because someone else might enjoy it.

It might be a lesson in frustration because even though we share the same fetish for CFNF fights, we are of the opposite sex and our tastes are a bit different so the story line might shift a lot, providing a serious challenge for both of us to keep it flowing well.

(That reminds me of a joke I heard recently by a comedian who was commenting that women and men can not possibly share the same fantasy. Such a shared fantasy, he said, would start with a knight riding up to a fair damsel on a white stallion and end with the knight spluging across the damsel’s face!)

Think about the CFNF fight story proposal and let me know if you want to give it a try.

Also, regarding the Angel vs. Jill comments, you did not need to apologize. I was trying to be funny, not preachy.
One of the perspectives that you and Frrio probably did not have regarding that match is that in numerous previous videos for Womens World, Jill stripped and humiliated a lot of her opponents.

So, in this one, she got paid back, big time. I love scenarios where the bully gets the tables turned on her and is forced to take her medicine.

Without knowing that, the ending of that fight would have been far less significant and satisfying to folks like yourselves.

Also, I might be wrong about this, but I reckon the women who work regularly for these girl fight video companies have some say as to how far they will go with nudity in these videos.

Therefore, when the script calls for them to be nude, perhaps they negotiate with the director that they will be stripped lying face down, as Jill was, so that nothing but their butts are exposed.

Other women, like veteran brunette Candy, who wins as often as she loses for Womens World, has for many years been captured on video, face up, nude and with legs spread at the end of some of her matches.

I imagine the actresses probably are offered more money for full-frontal nudity than backside nudity. What do you readers think?

Also, maybe there is a producer, director or actress who does these type of films and is a member of this message board who can shed some light on this subject. I am curious about how much the women are paid for their fetish wrestling work. I’ll bet it’s not a whole lot – nudity or not.

One last note about Angel vs. Jill, Angel Riptide is a professionally trained wrestler who made only, I believe, two videos for Women’s World, winning both of her encounters and stripping both of her opponents. (I guess she needed to do fetish wrestling to pay the rent.)

The match with Jill is several years old. I understand Jill has retired from fetish wrestling films simply because she got too old to do them.

Angel has since gone on to star in several major pro wrestling promotions and win women’s world championships. At last check she still was performing on pro wrestling cards on the indendent circuit and for all-female pro wrestling promotions.

I kind of wonder if she cringes when some fans bring up the CFNF wrestling work she did for Womens World several years ago.

Along those lines, one of the owners of Women’s World once told me that one of the girl wrestlers who frequently worked for his company was recognized at an airport and was approached by several of her fans seeking autographs.

The problem was, he said, the woman was with members of her family, who was shocked to learn from what the fans were saying to their loved one that their little girl was making adult-oriented videos to support herself! Talk about your 15 minutes of fame. LOL!

P.S. Helen, who would you put your money on in this fight? I'll tell you about this Womens World video later:

[Cigar4u]

Helen:

Oh, I forgot to answer your question about the Cheri Caffaro CMNF scene.

Yes I have seen both the tape and photos from the CMNF scene from the same movie where Ginger is stripped and sexually assaulted. It really doesn’t do anything for me.

Isn’t it strange about human nature? We are both into CFNF fighting, yet you are not into CFNM stuff, as you wrote earlier, and I am not into CMNF stuff. Yet I am really into CFNM and you apparently like CMNF stuff. Weird huh?

You’d think we would both be into both of those related fetishes but we are only each into one of them.
It takes all kinds of people to make up this crazy world, I guess.

By the way, if the Ginger fight scene is not your cup of tea, you might instead enjoy one of the scenes near the end of the sequel “Girls Are For Loving.” (the third movie in the Ginger trilogy was “The Abductors.”)

At the end of “Girls are for Loving,” which I believe was released in 1971 or '72, Caffaro’s Ginger character gets into a fight with the villain played by Joyclyn Peterson, with both gals fully dressed.

It ends with a fully clothed Cheri chasing Jocylyn, tieing her to a bed and stripping her naked – shoes and everything. She then has her male partner sexually assault Joycelyn’s character, telling her: “Girls are for loving.”

It’s really a neat scene that I understand is available if you are a paid member of OCC.

[hemo101]

Hi Cigar!

Nothing to apologize for. I love your idea of a collaborated cfnf catfight story. I'll pm to you my e-mail addy and lets take it from there. I just know this will all be fun.

I'm glad you liked my version of the Jackie vs. Marilyn tiff. Looking at the old photos of dear old Mr. President, you can just see he has too much of a mischevous glint in his eyes everytime he smiles. Kinda projecting a he knows something you don't know look.

I kinda take exception to your inference that the secret service are made up of clueless, incompetent boobs. Considering all the tax dollars spent on their training and years of experience, it would be impossible for a mere first lady to escape their clutches. Sorry to say, your "lone assailant theory" does not hold water and could never have happened.

Besides, didn't ot ever occur to you that whenever shit happens, they were allowed to by our good old men in black. Who do you think holds the real power in this country? The temporary lodger on Pennsylvania Avenue? Grow up! It is those shadowy characters in corporate boardrooms who do so, content on remaining in the background so long as our dear Mr. President does what he is told.

( On good authority, the assasination of JFK was different in that it was not because he went heads up against the powers behind the throne, but rather was really a crime of passion, instigated no doubt by someone closest to him and her lover. Too bad none of the players are alive now to take to Guantanamo to force a confession from.

Hmm. . . that chick Cheri seems to have been around. Do you have any more pics. of her? The ones I have of her are not from a movie but from an interview she did with some well known writer or something. They are in black and white and show an absolutely nude Cheri, well to be more accurate a shoed Cheri with a fully clothed man in a suit.

Anyway, lets do this.

Gotta go.

Love

Helen

P.S.

Anent your picture, a comparisson of the ladies would show that the naked one is more formidably built than the clothed girl. As such, she would appear most likely to come out on top, but I have a feeling this will not happen. My money then will be on the clothed girl who beets the living crap out of our nudie. Is there any chance they fight as is?

[Cigar4u]

Helen:

Regarding that interesting photo:

In its efforts to apparently reach customers of all tastes, Womens World produced a sort of reverse CFNF match.

This was a strip match, with the loser of a fall surrendering a piece of clothing to the winner. But Shelly, the blond, showed up in just a robe and drunk, having swilled from her bottle of alleged booze (more likely water).

The inebriated doll then dropped her robe to reveal she already was naked, meaning she couldn’t afford to lose a single fall. The premise was she was so much better a fighter than her opponent she could start a strip match already in the altogether and plastered -- and still win.

It’s kind of the equivalent of “I can beat you with one hand tied behind my back.” Or something to that effect.

From the description by the company, Shelly apparently did not lose a fall, dominating her clothed foe and relieving her of her garments fall by fall. The producers did not reveal in their description who won the last fall and, therefore the fight, but apparently the last fall was NFNF.

As Frrio said in an earlier posting, all can you expect from these videos is that some part of them might fill your greatest expectations. In this case, the beginning of the match has what you are looking for – a fully clothed woman and a totally nude one.

In this case, however, the nude one apparently is dominant despite her great clothing disadvantage.

[hemo101]

Figures. Leave it to the suits to otherwise ruin a wonderful scenario with a droll ending.

[Cigar4u]

And now some more photos of CFNF fighting and related topcis:

1. I guess this is for the CFNF vs. CFNF title -- Womens World.

2. An easy victory for the older looking blond -- FM Concepts.

3. Teacher spanks naughty student -- unknown source.

4. Jill Monroe walks away victorious -- unknown source.

5. Rachel puts nude Zora into a pretzle hold -- Womens World.

6. Talk about an arse whipping -- unknown source.

7. Shut your mouth girl -- unknown source.

8. I want you awake for what I'm about to do to you -- unknown source.

9. The winner displays loser after fight -- unknown source.

[Cigar4u]

Helen:

A quick note about your Caffaro pics.

The dude in those photos is Earl Wilson, who in his time, was one of America's top syndicated newspaper columnists. He called his big scoops "Earl's Pearls." He made a cameo appearance in one of those Frankie Avalon-Annette Funicello bikini beach pictures, playing hmself. He died several years ago.

Those photos you have -- I have seen those as well -- were the result of a gimmick conceived by Caffaro's husband at the time, Don Schain (sp?), who also was the director of all three of the Ginger movies. It was a publicity stunt for the first movie "Ginger," which is one of the first mainstream films that was released in major theatres that focused on fetishes including catfighting and bondage.

Although not a very good movie, it was a groundbreaking film and the producers wanted to do something real hot to promote it. That's when Schain decided to have Cheri Caffaro do the nude interview with Wilson, who, from the look of the photos that were taken, rather enjoyed it.

Caffaro went on to be a B movie queen and was one of the writers of the 1980s college romp film "HOTS."

Caffaro today is in her 60s and, from what I understand, lives a rather secluded life. She said in a recent interviw that she writes a lot of scripts and has never received the full royalties from the Ginger films. She is no longer married to Schain.

And, no, I do not have any more on topic photos of her. Some of her photos are dotted over the internet. But I have never seen a photo of her posted after the late 1970s or early 1980s, about the time she made one of her last films, I believe it was "Switchblade Sisters."

I imagine as with a number of stars of the past like Bridget Bardot the years have not been kind to her, otherwise there would be some more recent photos of her out there.