Lack of nudity on nude beaches and resorts

[NoShoCo]

Originally Posted by sammy15

Last spring we were told we could order food from outside the resort and have it delivered. We might do that next time. I would have my wife answer the door and accept the delivery. I always enjoy the interaction between a nude woman and a clothed man.

We ended up meeting up with a couple we knew from our nude cruises who gave us a ride to Publix where we could buy some food to break up the monotony of continuous bar food, so no pizza delivery. Instead I got to enjoy the opposite. I was in the shower and heard voices in our room. I finished my shower and walked out to find our housekeeper beginning to make up our room. My wife went to take her shower and the housekeeper continued talking with me, telling me a little about her family and that she had just moved from Philly to Orlando this summer. I was looking for a place to hang my towel to dry and she said not to bother, she would get us new towels. So I dropped the towel and we continued to talk while she made the bed. She knew my birthday was coming up so as she walked by she gave me a head to toe scan and guessed a nice low age which was nice to hear, but even nicer to get checked out while nude.

The door to our room was open and as a nude couple walked by one of the other housekeepers in the courtyard they wrapped their towels around themselves. Our housekeeper asked why nudists always do that. We do it not to offend the clothed workers, but after hearing that I didn’t cover up at all when interacting with the staff. We always assume the bartenders and waitresses expect to see nudity (plus we know most of them are nudists themselves) but don’t know what the housekeepers think about it.

In the end it is hard to tell if there was a lack of nudity at the Cove. Breakfast and dinner had quite a few clothed guests, but that was probably due to the cold weather outside. At lunch when the weather outside was nice almost everyone in the bar was nude, although some of the women were putting on sarongs to walk from the bar back to the pool where they would take the sarong back off just as others in this thread were describing. It seems like a waste of time to me, but I don’t know their nudist story. Maybe they are still new to social nudity or maybe they are trying to not offend the staff.

[raysallx]

Originally Posted by NoShoCo

We ended up meeting up with a couple we knew from our nude cruises who gave us a ride to Publix where we could buy some food to break up the monotony of continuous bar food, so no pizza delivery. Instead I got to enjoy the opposite. I was in the shower and heard voices in our room. I finished my shower and walked out to find our housekeeper beginning to make up our room. My wife went to take her shower and the housekeeper continued talking with me, telling me a little about her family and that she had just moved from Philly to Orlando this summer. I was looking for a place to hang my towel to dry and she said not to bother, she would get us new towels. So I dropped the towel and we continued to talk while she made the bed. She knew my birthday was coming up so as she walked by she gave me a head to toe scan and guessed a nice low age which was nice to hear, but even nicer to get checked out while nude.

The door to our room was open and as a nude couple walked by one of the other housekeepers in the courtyard they wrapped their towels around themselves. Our housekeeper asked why nudists always do that. We do it not to offend the clothed workers, but after hearing that I didn’t cover up at all when interacting with the staff. We always assume the bartenders and waitresses expect to see nudity (plus we know most of them are nudists themselves) but don’t know what the housekeepers think about it.

In the end it is hard to tell if there was a lack of nudity at the Cove. Breakfast and dinner had quite a few clothed guests, but that was probably due to the cold weather outside. At lunch when the weather outside was nice almost everyone in the bar was nude, although some of the women were putting on sarongs to walk from the bar back to the pool where they would take the sarong back off just as others in this thread were describing. It seems like a waste of time to me, but I don’t know their nudist story. Maybe they are still new to social nudity or maybe they are trying to not offend the staff.

In my experience, this whole sarong thing never happened back in the good old days. Nowadays even long time nudist women seem to do it. As far as offending staff, if a person takes a job at a nudist venue they have to expect to see nude people, right? We were at a nudist resort in Greece a while back, and their rule was you had to cover up in the lobby. Why? It seemed totally stupid to me.

[Shihoin]

Originally Posted by raysallx

As far as offending staff, if a person takes a job at a nudist venue they have to expect to see nude people, right? We were at a nudist resort in Greece a while back, and their rule was you had to cover up in the lobby. Why? It seemed totally stupid to me.

That started happening at larger, more commercial venues hiring non-nudist staff. I don't get it either. It's like a vegan taking a job at a butcher's shop. Are these people that desperate for work and can't find anything else?

There is a large resort in Canada that only hires people willing to be completely naked on the job. But I think these hiring practices are actually illegal in the U.S (discrimination laws).

You see that a lot less at the smaller "rustic" resorts. Probably because the "help" (notwithstanding contractors) are actually nudist volunteers. I prefer these resorts anyway. It's more enjoyable to me when you can just leave your clothes in the car, and go check in naked when everyone else is also naked.

[anonjohn]

Originally Posted by raysallx

... As far as offending staff, if a person takes a job at a nudist venue they have to expect to see nude people, right? ...

Originally Posted by Shihoin

... It's like a vegan taking a job at a butcher's shop. Are these people that desperate for work and can't find anything else?

I too am puzzled by these rules and practices.

My guess is that it is easier to hire and retain casual staff if they "don't have to see nudity". The pool of shortlistable applicants is much bigger.

- Some employment agencies might flag naturist resorts as "adult" and not advertize these jobs openly.

- I can imagine some parents and spouses worring about the moral safety of a loved one who was considering working at "such an establishment". They might wrongly fear it was only a step away from a strip club or brothel (as some fantasies on this site about naturist beaches and resorts indicate).

- I can also imagine some people starting work at a naturist place and imagining they can take it, but on the first day, find they can't or are later embarassed (especially if female) to tell others where they work and have to explain that they themselves are fully clothed.

- Casual staff leaving mid-season might take longer to replace, vet, induct and train at busy times. Even in places of high general unemployment it might be difficult to get reliable staff at short notice during peak vacation times. I can imagine a (textile) manager at a commercial site "playing it safe".

Having said that, the clothed staff I have spoken to about this, say that although many were initally wary, they later found that the general behaviour and atmosphere at genuine naturist clubs, events and resorts is generally much better that textile ones.

[Shihoin]

Originally Posted by visa0061

Back to the original post. I think it's reasonable for people to cover up under certain circumstances. If a woman, or even man, wants to cover up to walk to the rest room or to eat, that's understandable. However, by and large you should be nude. You do see the occasional wife/GF topless in a thong.

That's typically the "run of things" at clothing-optional resorts. I've seen it where almost no one was fully naked outside the pool area.
I see it as a bit of a "catch 22." On the one hand, women (and sometimes men) not feeling forced to be naked at all times can make them feel less "pressured" and therefore more comfortable. On the other hand, if no one is naked outside the pool area, this can de-incentivize other people from staying naked (my wife once remarked that she "certainly wasn't going to be the only woman walking around naked" when no one else was.)

The best resorts I've been to, whether large or small, or clothing optional or nude-mandatory, did a good job promoting nudity; whether by the owner/manager being nude themselves, setting expectations upon arrival by explaining "nudist philosophy", or even proposing that "newbies" disrobe before being given the introductory tour. Nothing "forced", just "encouraged."

[raysallx]

"my wife once remarked that she "certainly wasn't going to be the only woman walking around naked" when no one else was."

Yep, and that's the issue. Women don't like to be seen as "that woman," i.e. a show off. Resorts promote the "clothing optional" thing to encourage people to come who are hesitant, and it eventually becomes "nudity optional," except at the pool. I've been to a campground where there were groups of clothed people sitting around. Maybe the state campgrounds were full? Some posters above say that nude beaches are more nude than ever, I certainly am not seeing that. Even at Haulover a couple years back there were lots of people in swim suits. Odd, because textile beaches are next door. Maybe I just hit a bad day.

[Shihoin]

Originally Posted by raysallx

Women don't like to be seen as "that woman," i.e. a show off.

Yeap. And it often works the other way around too. Not wanting to be the only woman covered up when all the others are naked.

I've told the story before about how and why my wife decided to stay naked at a resort for the first time.
The person who checked us in was naked. The people waiting behind us to check in were also already naked. After we returned to the parking lot she noticed that most everyone was leaving their clothes in the car and proceeding to the lake/pool naked. Her "sense of pride" kicked in; she wasn't look like she was ashamed of her body when most of the other women looked "totally open" about being seen naked everywhere and anywhere. Thus her decision to drop her cover-up, "look confident", and proceed naked around the entire resort. Knowing that the people who were seeing her naked were also naked themselves around her made it "easy."
I've seen many similar situations play out almost exactly the same.

"Pro-nudity resorts" understand this and promote nudity accordingly. "Pro-dollar resorts" often choose to ignore it to keep the revenue stream flowing.

[sammy15]

Originally Posted by Shihoin

That started happening at larger, more commercial venues hiring non-nudist staff. I don't get it either. It's like a vegan taking a job at a butcher's shop. Are these people that desperate for work and can't find anything else?

There is a large resort in Canada that only hires people willing to be completely naked on the job. But I think these hiring practices are actually illegal in the U.S (discrimination laws).

You see that a lot less at the smaller "rustic" resorts. Probably because the "help" (notwithstanding contractors) are actually nudist volunteers. I prefer these resorts anyway. It's more enjoyable to me when you can just leave your clothes in the car, and go check in naked when everyone else is also naked.

I seem to recall watching the movie Educating Julie back in '84 which was a kind of nudist documentary and they went to visit Paradise Lakes in Florida. The movie showed the lady bartender and waitresses at least topless, and the lady showing Julie around the resort was totally nude. Could it be the work rules imposed either state or local prevent it today? I agree, I wish everyone was naked all the time, even the staff, but some resorts wish to appeal to as many people as possible, and allow some degree of clothes in order to achieve that goal. I saw that Cypress Cove have a music festival recently, and it was billed as clothing optional. I wonder if some regulars would be self-conscious with a bunch of dressed people in a nudist resort. Would the nudist ladies be uncomfortable with dressed men looking at them?

[anonjohn]

Originally Posted by sammy15

...Would the nudist ladies be uncomfortable with dressed men looking at them?

Yes! - based on my conversations.

Because:
1. Many women would feel they are being gawped at, like in a strip show (even if they were not). cf relatively few (and fewer) women at most WNBR events, largely due to clothed male photographers mobbing them, and their pics (suitably cropped) ending up on porn sites for perves like us.

2. Women tend to be more insecure and worry more about being judged (often by other women) for their appearance than men

3. There is a physical power imbalance between the sexes (women are physically more vulnerable to sexual assault than men).

As previously discussed on this thread - if (almost) all other women are naked, the remaining women will follow suit - if the men are also naked and behaving properly and part of a couple or "safely gay".

[Shihoin]

Originally Posted by anonjohn

if the men are also naked and behaving properly and part of a couple or "safely gay".

Yeap. Correct on all counts.

My wife's attitude towards men will vary depending on status and behavior; and from I'm what I've seen and heard, other nudist women feel the same way.
- A nude guy with his naked partner doesn't automatically elicit trust; but if he is clearly more mindful of his wife than other women, it's a good start.
- A naked single guy will "earn" her trust after several instance of proven appropriate behavior (friendliness and no oggling).
- A single covered guy: she's going to steer clear of him.
- Several covered guys: she's putting something on or is going to want to leave.

Notwithstanding our married male nudist friends whom my wife has no problem being naked around, we also have a single male/divorced friend at the resort. We've known him for a couple years and has always displayed "gentleman-like" behavior and friendliness towards my wife. She's got no problem interacting and being openly naked around him; because he's earned her trust.
On the other hand there's a married male whom she's "caught looking" while she was bent over or had her legs open. She is now careful around him. So "observable behavior" often trumps marital status.