Members please read- No pics.

[kopema]

Originally Posted by warney59

I agree with what most people say here. We would look to produce situations that are real enough to be sexy, but with actresses that are not so over the top with their "embarrassment" they look fake.

Personally, I think realism is way over-rated. Remember how popular that wacky "Juiced" video game commercial was?

And when it comes to acting, can anybody here think of an ENF film moment that was hurt by too MUCH acting? The vast majority are hurt by under-acting -- or arguably none at all. The average actress can do "realistic" pain, sadness, joy, anger, whatever, but my guess is that most nude actresses will be pretty clueless when it comes to acting embarrassed. That's not a bad thing, it's just reality; they either don't care or have developed defenses. I suspect you'll get the best results by letting them lose themselves in melodrama. It's a lot easier to ask them to go over-the-top from the start and then ease up if necessary, than to try to do it the other way around.

Blasted accounts people always want to see the money before they make the leap.

If you're not sure of the market, why not start with a five-minute test shoot of a simple ENF scenario just to see how many free downloads people make, and ask for comments? How much could that cost? That's the kind of stuff film students do every day.

Beggars can't be choosers. We're not that picky about production values. Seriously, aside from Helmhold's ONE film, who the heck is your competition here?

[thefonz]

First things first - What budget (soup to nuts, from paying the actresses to the sets, and everything) for the project do you already have in mind? How much were you planning on spending?

What return are you seeking on this investiment (in terms of a percentage) or are you doing it "pro bono" or for the love of the genre?

I have an idea but I'd rather pitch it to you in a private message, I'll send you one.

[kopema]

Originally Posted by vidpro

Finding Talent. As an established studio, I can certainly find talent very easily. However, if I don't want my studio name on a project, it's a lot more difficult to find talent when they've never heard of you or can't verify who you are. When we do casting calls for various projects we get a ton of response simply because we have an established history of production. A film of this type is a delicate thing to produce. We've done similar, but non-nude projects and even those sometimes cause problems for us with our client base.

Yeah, if you do a casting call for a soap opera and then ask the actress to strip, it's going to cause some confusion.

This is called "erotica;" so what? A lot of companies do "sexy" nudity without pornograpy nowadays. We're talking about the same kind of thing, except having the actresses try to act like something besides mindless sl*ts for a change.

I'm not saying that would be easy, but if you're heading from the opposite direction, and trying to go from complete mainstream to the kind of all-ENF film we're talking about, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. The most you could end up with would be another Porky's, but (If you "pushed" the issue hard enough) maybe it would have a few seconds longer shower scene.

Because distribution might be challenging, consider selling the finished product to a subscription cable network (showtime, for example.) If the quality is decent (or average), sometimes they pay $250,000 to $350,000 for exclusive rights to broadcast the film.

Or, better yet, how about getting Speilberg onboard? I'm pretty sure we're not talking about the same thing at all here. Even those lame-brained softcore porn pieces of crap can get sold on this scale -- not because they are any good, or even particularly successful, but because they are a known commodity. What we're talking about is a competely NEW concept. This is not the kind of product you can just sell like the ten-thousandth action/adventure film made this year. This market will have to be built up from scratch. And that means starting small; getting in on the ground floor and working your way up.

[smegol12]

While I agree beggars can't be choosers, I interpreted the original question to be what are we, the members of this board looking for in an ENF video. My earlier rant was not intended to be so finicky, but in a perferct world, some of the sexy scenarios I mentioned would be ideal. Would I settle for less? Sure, we all have and were glad to get what we got. The Juiced ad is a great example. The ENF moments could be so much more, done so much better, with so much more tension, better acting, more realistic women, more creative scenarios, but to date they just simply ARE NOT. THey could be, but ARE NOT. So sure we love Juiced. Could have been better though. For a 30 second commercial it was great. For a video I'm paying for, I would like more than Juiced delivers. And i don't consider myself a killjoy for saying that. I think this is why this thread has received so much attention, and why I personally went in to such detail. Never before has a person, or company in this position cared enough to ask my opinion on this subject, and I for one won't let this opportunity pass to possibly influence a wonderful, yet underdeveloped genre. I remember an Amy Lynn Baxter movie, Bikini Bistro, featuring Isabella Fortea as a waitress who loses a bet and has to take off her top, in front of just one cook, is apprehensive/pensive for about 3 seconds, and then turns nympho on the cook. I must have watched it a thousand times. Was the acting good? No. Girl good looking? yes. Situation sexy? yes. Set design impressive. Absolutely no. Worth buying for those 3 seconds. Hell yes...by comparison. Because of the lack of what I am looking for, that scene made it worth buying. Would you sell a half ass effort to at least every other member on this board. Yes. But with a "babysitting" effort, you would become the leader of a cult. The Skinimax type erotic thriller replaced bawdy 80's T&A comedies after Basic Instinct came out. No one rents those for the story, and the only thing they are thrilled about is seeing nudity. So, you're answer at first in the sense of getting the "company" to go along with a full length video, might be to sell it as a regular sexy thriller chock full of ENF moments rather than telling them you're reinventing the wheel. Rather than having the starlet seduced by the killer, have her completely embarassed by the killer, blackmailed into situations, or whatever. Shannon Tweed's movies often danced around this where she wasn't instantly enamored only to find out she was dating a psycho. Often she was quite reluctant to be in the situation, but far to quickly was overcome with lust in my opinion. T&A comedies like National Lampoon's straight to video, evidently are all aimed at pre-teens. Nothing is more irritating to me to pick up a box at the video store with a cover that looks like the movie is the next "Zapped", I turn it over and it says, rated for A SCENE of sexuality, language. Sorry, getting off the soapbox. My point is that these feeble attempts at T&A comedy are always checked out. Someone is renting them. And I guarantee when they get them home and find that the only nude scene was a 3 second shot of some extra, not the cute actress the story was all about, they are dissapointed. And when it happens to me i remember that "Full Moon Video" never delivers, only teases. So I skip their movies and rent something else. We've all been duped too many timess by Lampoon. Everyone knows now to save your money. Likewise, a good reputation for delivering the goods will go a long way. Google search the name Alain Siritsky, he makes these kinds of films. Some may remember "Le click", which I think was later made into a crappy little series on showtime. While not ENF, he's the only one currently staying true to light hearted T&A, and was involved with the recent video, "Ain't it cool", a Zapped clone. Anyway, I think you can make a lighthearted flic and it will sell to those not interested in ENF just because it's a T&A comedy, if you ever end up thinking about making a full length film full of ENF. Again thanks for reading, and if there is anyway that we can help support your project, don't hesitate to ask, I'll gladly sign the petition.

[Lotfw]

To get some ideas flowing (everyone has their favorite type of situations)

Name/describe a favorite movie /tv scene..

I will go first (no nudity in these) these are examples of unlikely situations:
Wicked Dreams of Paula Schultz - Elke Sommers while escaping from her "captors"
Elke polevaults over a barbed wire fence and loses her dress then after diving into a lake
to escape loses her underthings to a fishing line

Seargent Deadhead - Group of female soldiers showering are forced outside in towels when a emergency alarm
goes off. They are forced to drop their towels when an officer drives by.

[kopema]

Originally Posted by Lotfw

Name/describe a favorite movie /tv scene..

I will go first (no nudity in these) these are examples of unlikely situations:
Wicked Dreams of Paula Schultz ‑ Elke Sommers while escaping from her "captors"
Elke polevaults over a barbed wire fence and loses her dress then after diving into a lake
to escape loses her underthings to a fishing line

Seargent Deadhead ‑ Group of female soldiers showering are forced outside in towels when a emergency alarm
goes off. They are forced to drop their towels when an officer drives by.

Elke Sommer fleeing the Pink Panther nudist colony... The list goes on and on. Ah, the classics.

But none of those examples really apply any more. For years, no one ever explored whether you could make an entire show out of that sort of thing. Did you have to spend 99% of the time developing the character before her embarrassment "mattered?" Would that "naughty" feeling wane if the situation lasted longer than a few seconds? Would more explicit nudity "ruin" the mood.

Now that Helmhold has answered all of those questions with a resounding "NO!" we have to leave these beloved (but now obsolete) examples behind. We need to break new ground. We need not just vignettes, but entire PLOTS that revolve around this; complete with a character who can keep the energy going indefinitely, and an environment that can support the right balance of risk and safety; ongoing embarrassment without revolt or resignation.

Personally, I believe this calls not for realism (let's face it, reality sucks, that's why we're all here) but verisimilitude. It's called "suspension of disbelief." The story doesn't have to be "real," it just has to WORK within the right parameters. If you stop and think about it rationally, did anything the brats did to strip Laura-Ann in the "Babysitting" movie make any sense? No; but that's the way it's SUPPOSED to be. It's all about power exchange, and the slippery slope that ensues.

Good examples of extended ENF simply don't exist in any prior movies. But some ENF stories provide examples. As Helmhold illustrated in the Ann the Babysitter stories where the main character's own arrogance makes her an irresistible target for the whims of her bratty charges. The "Jenny" series of stories is another example where the eternally optimistic main character is the pivot for a never‑ending series of ENF situations; the sunnier she gets, the more spiteful her "best friend" becomes.

Even the best movies are based on a formula of one type or another. I think we have one here: a haplessly naive and overly repressed protagonist; trusted but cynical antagonists to advance the story; and a potential "audience" to provide the motivation. Plug any combination of those together and ‑ boom ‑ you've got the basis for a script:

1. Freshman co‑ed -- upperclass "popular clique" crowd -- junior college dorm with showers down the hall;
2. Professional women -- brusque FBI investigator -- office subject to chemical terrorist threat;
3. Neighborhood flirt -- jealous housewives taking her on girls' night out -- hypnotist show.
4. Status-deprived divorcee -- once‑nerdy female high school classmate now successful manager of... -- exclusive health spa.

I think anyone here could put together a screenplay based on any of the above. Personally, I wouldn't even start with the plot. Just see what actress you have found who can handle the acting and nudity required for the lead, get a list of the supporting cast, and see what sets you have to work with. Then just write the story to fit what you've got.

Western, sci‑fi, detective mystery, feel free to toss in any other components you want. Every other genre has been done to death; we have 40 minutes of film history so far. Inspiration is NOT the limiting factor here.

[legmuscle]

One scene I'm fond of is the piano scene from weird science. For anyone who hasn't seen the movie I'll set the scene: There's a house party, and a bunch of revelers are gathered in a large room with a piano. The girl in question is playing away when the titular weird science starts going down. Suddenly objects in the room start getting sucked out the window. Starting with the d****s, then some furniture, then finally the piano, the stool...The girl hangs onto something on the far wall and manages to hold out until her shirt and skirt are sucked off, then she's sucked out the window as well. It goes to pretty much full nudity and would be a perfect scene for me if it wasn't for the bizarre lighting that kicks in about halfway through.

Part of why I like it so much is that there's kind of a buildup where the girl isn't aware of her predicament until it's too late. Most of the partgoers clear out when the furniture starts dissapearing, leaving the girl blithely playing away while her surroundings are denuded. There was something about her lack of awareness of what was going on that made the scene work that much better for me. Maybe I'm alone in that thinking.

Another scene that did the same thing was the magnet schtick at the end of screwballs. Stuff starts going to hell in a handbasket all around the girl and she just keeps singing away like nothing's happening. Even after her costume starts to give way she's still pretty okay for a few seconds before she notices. Of course that scene was famously ruined by the credits. (What a ripoff)

Finally, way back when there was a Japanese production where a guy in a fake beard was using telekinesis to disrobe students at a Japanese high school. The girl keeps walking and going about her business as her duds are magically stripped away. She doesn't notice what has befallen her until it's pointed out to her, then we get the big ENF reaction.

I know the main reason why I like this type of scene: There's more bang for my buck. Real girls in real situations are too fast with their hands: No sooner have their boobies been freed from the confines of their textile prison than they are recaptured by their hands. In a fictional situation you can have an extended lapse in perception which allows me , prevert that I am, to get a better look at the goods.

But there's something else, too. I'm not sure what it is, and it could just be something that is specifically wrong with me, but there's something that really gets me about a chick in a normal situation who, if even for the briefest of moments, isn't aware that she's naked.

Put it this way, if any aspiring filmmaker were to make a better lit variation of the piano scene from weird science, I'd be right there with my money.

I've probably said enough.

[smegol12]

I think kopema makes valid points, but if you'll allow me to retort without taking it as a personal attack, I'd like to draw some comparisons. "Those pictures", a story on the ASN board, I apologize for not remembering the name of the author, extends ENF to what 1000 episodes?, which I would consider extended ENF. Now, my own personal tastes dictate that at this point I feel like the main character should be numb to it, and I don't care anymore that she's naked, partly because she spends literally DAYS naked, and that's where it loses it's appeal for me. Again, just my own personal tastes. Jenny, on the other hand, and even though I'm not a fan of the genre because the outrageous ways she loses her clothes sometimes are beyond my own personal suspension of disbelief(strong wind, mischievous boyscouts, etc.), I think it delivers in one respect. Jenny gets in a situation, gets naked, gets embarassed, gets dressed, repeat. I think Jenny or other main character could work at a job where an Enf situation arises, gets home, gets in another, goes out on the town, gets in another, gets pulled over by a cop, gets in another, etc. etc. I don't believe you have to think within the box and assume that it has to be "extended", and if you're just putting ONE situation and ONE result in you're video, sure, you're going to have to rely on the actress, and strong emotional, building plot, character arcs, and the like. Forget character arcs. They are a luxury. Your video is not dependent on them because it is a stroke movie. Yes, there are parameters you should shoot for, and you may hit a home run and get everyone to really care and feel like "they know " your Jenny. But it's not necessary, and should not be given more attention than the stories and fantasies that your fanbase would like to see. Babysitting's teacher is a flat character. She's uptight, and a teacher, period. We don't know or care about her childhood or what she likes to do in her spare time. You are not making "The Piano" here.. Heck, a waitress who's bar goes topless would get embarassed. Then, even if she's been working there for weeks, would be further embarassed by different guests she encounters, based on the backstory of the relationship she had with them. Example of this is "not another teen movie" when the girl is masturbating under the covers and her little brother comes in, followed by her parents, singin happy birthday, then her grandparents, and finally " Father O'Malley" her priest. Now that may be off the reservation for some, but it is an example of one Embarassing, if not nude situation, that IS in fact heightened and builds because of the story and relationships, if only played for laughs. The girl does not masturbate for the entire movie, nor is she a great actress. The setup, simple, yet effective, is funny because she is mortified, and it keeps getting worse and worse. For those of us with an ENF fetish, throw in some nudity, and that particular movie and scene would be at the top of the list around here, and it lasted under two minutes. Take the girl to school and have her have to model nude for art class, then her iniation to get on the cheerleading squad is to take a shower in the boys locker room which she THINKS will be empty, where she gets caught and taken to the principal's office nude, where her parents are called, where everyone decideds her punishment is to stay nude...goes to show you can mix and match several seperate situations or take it into extended ENF IF, IF, If the storycan support it. And now you're just talking one character...which brings be to ZAPPED!, which by some is considered on of the greats of all time. Telekenisis...and clothes fly off. While you don't really know much about the women losing their clothes because the story revolves around Barney, you do know a little. The snobby girl is embarassed at the prom. Then all the girls lose their clothes at the prom. Prior to this a few girls lose clothes, usually those that have been mean to Barney. Again, you can take Barney to various locations, with various women of various occupations. And TADA! you have several ENF "moments, several ENf buildups, over and over, linked together by a male main character. Or the unifying theme could be the location or buisness itself. A school is a great example, whether using nudity as punishment which I think lacks creativity...You could have the art model, students and or teachers playing strip games, punishments, accidental exposures, strip searches, you name it. Whether we witnessed a "near miss" of accidental exposure, heard about a female student who chose the spanking over detention, made a bet with a fellow female student, took a dare, or gazed day after day at that hot teacher...everyone one of us had some adolescent fantasy about the girls at our high school. Now if you're gonna tell me that a movie or short video that takes those elements and shows us what would have been our wildest highschool dream, whether it happens to one girl or many, for 30 seconds or 30 minutes, that scenarios aren't important and are just an after thought I have to whole heartedly disagree. I don't want to know what her favorite color is or care about her teenage angst. I would like to know if she's the teacher, the virgin, the snob, or the nerd. I would like her to be somewhere between reluctant and mortified. I would like to know who is seeing her naked and a little bit about why she should care more than if she was naked in front of a stranger. And last on the list I would like her to not to have to be a great actress to overcome the fact that she LOOKS like a stripper. Tattoos, piercings, goth, and fake tits make me think stripper or trashy. And that makes me think they don't care who sees them. I think getting bogged down with how great an actress she is and can you get her naked in the first five minutes, keep her that way, camera angles and amount of nudity is up to the director, and is not paramount, nor the only way to do things . Short sweet and to the point and all I want is one good shot fully nude, cause I have freeze frame. . On to the next scene. If it "extends" and builds, then that is just icing on the cake. If she lost a bet and has to get naked after school, you don't show her going to every single class. This is not an episode of "24", shot in real time. I've even seen mainstream movies that show a scene, and then subtitle, "Four years later", and the main character is tada! at a different job, or has a different haircut! Wow! The wonders of cinema! And alas, poor Jenny gets ENF four years later in a different SCENARIO in front of a different bunch of people. Anyway, A few classmates teasing our poor student as she walks down the hall, and then the crowd that gathers for the actual event is all you need to build up the tension. If you want to extend it from there, and she's gonna remain nude, you're gonna have to put her in a SITUATION that is even more embarassing than stripping in front of a group of her classmates... A bigger group? A location that is more formal where her nudity is more shocking? In front of someone she has a more intimate relationship or a more formal relationship with? You decide. I simply don't agree you should be on the search for a young Meryl Streep with 44d's willing to be tied naked to a pole for two hours. You can't put this on the shoulders of the actress. It's on the shoulders of the writers, directors, and cameramen. You have the director asking a group of fans, MANY of which are amateur ENF writers, and some that are filmmakers what would make for great ENF, and you're telling me to devalue the storyline? The bottom line is that we're not being given veto rights in the casting process, nor any say in the editing process. These things, from production quality to amount of nudity an actress will do is something that I personally believe is a waste of time to give my two cents on, because i believe the movie maker has to do what they have to do, regardless of my opinion. However, when it comes to storylines, I do believe my two cents can always be worked into the budget, shown in a way that is very exciting to me regardless of the camera angle or if I get as much "exposure" as I'd hoped for, and is not dependent on a great actress or one with no scruples. As for everything else, as far as I'm concerned, you might as well be giving advice on what kind of film the video should be shot on.

[smegol12]

anyway, kopema, I think you're right on about what is most important in the filmaking process for this ENF movie. Where we differ is you want to see a different movie than I do. So of course we're going to differ on the most important aspects of the process. I would like to see as many different sets of tits as possible. I'll agree, let's say you got the Katie Holmes' character from Dawson's creek, and made your ENF movie with her. Solid actress, and I feel like I "know" her enough to "feel her pain" as she strips. Seeing her over and over would not get old. And you wouldn't have to put her in a cheerleader outfit. And you are right. That would be a very difficult epic to make. My point is that even though your position is that "vignittes" have been done to death, I do not believe they have ever been done to the satisfaction of this group. When produced by playboy, they show too much too soon, and by lampoon, not enough. Mainstream and straight to video dance around the issue, or worse, use a great setup and buildup but waste it on CFNM. What I want to see is all or even one of these great "vignittes" done RIGHT for a change. So for what I would truly enjoy seeing, your criteria is not important. Anyway, i was not planning on turning this into a debate, but I would like to see a poll whether I'm in the minority of the type of ENF movie that everyone would like to see is. If I am, I'll shut up, as my criteria is in fact unimportant for the type of ENF movie you want to see, and I'll watch your epic when it comes out. If I'm not in the minority, then I think Lotfw hit the nail on the head with sharing some of our favorite scenarios/movie moments to pass on to the director is a good idea.

[warney59]

Well, thank youall for such a good response to this question. I figured that if people are going to look at making videos in this genre then they need to appeal to the fanbase. I will try to answer some of the questions I remember people asking:
Money- We would look to put about £50,000 ($70,000) into an initial 10 minute short film. Most of this would be done on set, as the quality is much better in these types of situiation if you are not outside. This would include money for actors, filming, editing, production etc...
I guess we would try to make a good profit on this. As a business it is important that we make something profitable as well as fun. I am interested in seeing the end result, but as a production company I will not be hands on with the actual filming. That will be down to my long time director, who is excellent at anything we give him.
Vidpro- I will PM you when i get five minutes and talk you through the various stages we went through getting the adult side off the ground. The problems we faced will probably fill a page!

In terms of ideas and screenplays it is always good to hear what people want. I think judging from the reaction to "babysitting without a net" it is a high quality, well thought out video that people like rather than an easy to believe scenario. I am happy to answer questions and talk ideas with people, although it is probably easier to PM with questions as it saves taking up room in Alex's threads.

I will keep everyone up to date with what we are doing, and may well get a few polls going when we have decided on some ideas. As I said before I think the first video would be a 5-10 minute short film that would be made availible free to OCC members.

Thanks for the support and ideas. Keep them coming and I will answer everything when i can.