Greetings from the Sauna!

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by drewhadley

I lived overseas for a few years. I believe that Europeans are just as obsessed with nudity as anyone else. They are more open about nudity, but no less obsessed. I saw so many salacious advertising campaigns that were based around toplessness/nudity...it was not portrayed as a "natural" thing. Let's face it, the female form is going to hold interest to just about anyone. It's a classic. The fact that it's more "in the open" (on TV, ads, beaches, etc.) in Europe does not immunize people to it. There was so much usage of female nudity in advertising over there, and none of it was particularly innocent. And I agree with Sandy, what are you doing here Polki? "Research" into what we Yanks are looking at?

In areas like advertizing, film, TV, etc - everyone will go as far as the law in that country allows. Sex sells, so why hold back? I mean it is a sign of openess about nudity that the laws are more relaxed in Europe, not necessarily a sign of obsessiveness. And just because there is all this nudity in the media doesn't mean the public is paying any attention. The public may in fact be so jaded that the media feels it needs to hit them over the head with all that stuff.

Klondike

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by SandyM

these might be staged, but, I still like them. Found on Photofile

Staged? WHO CARES! AWESOME pics! I have to reply to this since hitting the thanks button ten times might not be proper etiquette...

THANKS!

Klondike

[Klondike]

lets review this pic one more time:

OK, we have: one...two....three....four....five....six....seven ....eight....ten.....thirteen.....oops.....aghh... ..help!....I'm going blind!........

Which is what that guy must be otherwise he'd be harder than a.....

Klondike

[dixler]

Originally Posted by polki1

You Americans are kind of strange. I cant really figure out what is so exciting about saunas and nakedness in general.

The thing I like is that the women are comfortable enough with themselves to be nude in front of others. Very, very few American women are like that. Hell, I knew a woman who freaked out once when we saw her tanning in her bikini in her backyard! She covered up real quick. Think she'd ever go naked at a beach or a sauna? Shame she was so self conscious because she was a pretty girl with a terrific body.

It isn't necessarily the body I like to look at so much as it is the spirit contained within it.

[stevin6]

Also some strange thing is the fact in the Netherlands that even when less young girls/woman are going to a nude-beach, you can still see a lot of nice girls/students/woman laying all nude in the garden(s), which most Sauna/wellness centers have here. In the safe guarded garden of a sauna/wellness center they feel comfortable enough to go all nude. That means that there still a lot of potential female nudists but for several reasons rather choose to go topless on the beach.

[lepre]

don't think all the euorpeans countries are all the same. there can be great differences even inside a country, just like america i guess.

greetings from a conservative part of sweden

[soundwave106]

Originally Posted by FKKFan

I too must echo the last few posts. Toplessness in Germany is way down since the early 00's...wonder if it has to do w/the advent of the camera cell. And as for FKK, membership too is down (Google it auf Deutsch for various news stories); I've noticed various lakes I used to visit have gotten a little "geriatric" in regards to demographics. Last summer I visited both the Englischer Garten and the banks of the Isar and saw very few attractive young women showing full schwaa in public.

I haven't been to Europe in a while, but last time I went (early 2000s) some people were importing a bit of the American attitude of nudity=exploitation... which I'm sure the Internet doesn't help, sad to say. Europe was overall way more laissez faire in regards to nudity. Certainly a bit less prude than American metropolitan areas. If attitudes have converged towards American metropolitan levels, well, that is way less prude than heartland areas. On the other hand, I've never seen seas of naked people in Europe; anyone who expects that will be disappointed. It just means that you will go on a beach, and there may be topless bathers or naked bathers, and people won't care. Aside from designated nudist colonies, there are only a few places in America that are like that (more "European" places like South Beach). Europe also has some nudity on TV, though it does seem like less than there used to be.

Ironically, I actually consider interest in nudism in America to be going up right now, including interest from a slightly younger age group than has typically been interested in the past. (Instead of retired, you get some interest from the yuppie crowd and the hippie crowd). If Europe is less inclined to nudism than the past, maybe of all things America will pick up the slack.

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by FKKFan

I too must echo the last few posts. Toplessness in Germany is way down since the early 00's...wonder if it has to do w/the advent of the camera cell. And as for FKK, membership too is down (Google it auf Deutsch for various news stories); I've noticed various lakes I used to visit have gotten a little "geriatric" in regards to demographics. Last summer I visited both the Englischer Garten and the banks of the Isar and saw very few attractive young women showing full schwaa in public.

As for saunabads, I think people here are getting the wrong impression. A lot, A LOT, of women cover up when they exit the sauna cabin and don't walk around nude. In fact, I would say the majority of nudity you will see are in dark sauna cabins, the light-therpy cabins, the open showers and maybe the whirlpool. Of course, the outdoor sunning patio and swimming pool of the better saunabads will have nudity; but much of it is elderly...and again...even those women cover up more often than not. Now don't get me wrong, I've seen copious amounts of first Klasse tits & pussy in German saunabads (mostly in Freiburg, a university town)...and it is there; but it's not like it's this fantasy of wall-to-wall nude women all the time. In fact, more than once I've left feeling disappointed in the fact that so many women stayed covered up so much of the time (versus the "old" days).

Another distressing thing: It seems the FKK nights at schwimmbads are also going away or are less frequent. Having been to them w/my wife, I can tell you it can be a bit of a sausagefest...and as a result, intimidating for a woman. Again though, I think the advent of the camera cell has had a bit to do with that too; there have been a few public scandals where photos were posted to the internet (notably, on Voyeurweb) and the news picked up on it. In addition to that, some of these FKK nights have gotten a reputation for swinging...like the Miramar in Weinheim (again, just Google and translate).

Anyway, hope I didn't turn this into a rant or downer; just wanted to share another perspective.

FKKFan (aka Seahawk)

I was surprised to learn when I went to Europe that the West Germans were less enthusiastic nudists than the East Germans. In fact West Germans have tried to close down many of East Germany's beaches. Anyway, so I wonder if your observations would extend to East Germany as well. Also Czechoslovakia. Possibly not, but I don't know.

Also, consider that camera phones are more likely to be found among affluent West Germans.

The story a few years back was that affluence could be affecting babe turnouts at Englischer Gardens for other reasons too. I guess they interviewed some young women and they said nowadays they prefer to go shopping for chlothes rather than sunning without them.

I think though that a lot of women may just want to regain some control over a situation that has deteriorated in recent years. By that I mean that increasingly they are just sitting ducks if they go to established beaches. I think if I were a woman, I'd rather be moving - on a bike, walking, running, etc if i were nude. And doing it with a group of people so that I wouldn't feel so alone and vulnerable. Thats the advantage of the bike ride - you're mobile and in a pack so the lions can't prey on you so easily. Thats one way to regain some control.

And then there is the image problem affecting the nudist movement today, where "nudist" is synonomous with "old and fat" to young people. Blame the internet there -


Klondike

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by soundwave106

I haven't been to Europe in a while, but last time I went (early 2000s) some people were importing a bit of the American attitude of nudity=exploitation... which I'm sure the Internet doesn't help, sad to say. Europe was overall way more laissez faire in regards to nudity. Certainly a bit less prude than American metropolitan areas. If attitudes have converged towards American metropolitan levels, well, that is way less prude than heartland areas. On the other hand, I've never seen seas of naked people in Europe; anyone who expects that will be disappointed. It just means that you will go on a beach, and there may be topless bathers or naked bathers, and people won't care. Aside from designated nudist colonies, there are only a few places in America that are like that (more "European" places like South Beach). Europe also has some nudity on TV, though it does seem like less than there used to be.

Ironically, I actually consider interest in nudism in America to be going up right now, including interest from a slightly younger age group than has typically been interested in the past. (Instead of retired, you get some interest from the yuppie crowd and the hippie crowd). If Europe is less inclined to nudism than the past, maybe of all things America will pick up the slack.

That would be nice. We have a long ways to go, though.

THe effect of the internet seems to go like this: Women don't want anyone to sneak up on them with a camera. But they don't mind posing or otherwise being in more control (being able to see the photogs, for example). The case of Sienna Miller being photographed by the paparazzi recently while on the set of a movie is a great example. She was there to do a nude scene (where she had control), but dare take a voyeur pic of her without her consent and she sues like crazy.

Anyway, to me this means the future may look like this: Look for a decline in nude beach use where women don't have any control over the photography aspect. To pick up the slack, other types of events may become more popular, events where photogs, if present, are at least out in the open where women can see them. Many of these events today are in the US, and their popularity seems to be growing or at least holding strong. Europe on the other hand is where most of the beach action is, and it seems inevitable given the net that there will be some decline there.

Anyway, Europe and America have always traded fads and cultural trends. As a fad, the nude beach is relatively old now compared to WNBR, fantasyfest, burning man, etc. And the photogs at those events must seem like comparitively nice, friendly guys who just want to make a woman look and feel beautiful. Compared, for example, to someone like Enrique or some of those other sneaky nude beach photogs (not you, Pedro - I'm talking about the gyno guys.......)

I'd be interested in a woman's perspective on this.....

Klondike

[stevin6]

To respond on the Munich situation, FKKfan wrote, i read that for about 5-10 years back some German boulevard/papparazzi magazines like bild published some articles about the Englisher Garten in Munich, besides that also the German tvsender/broadcast corporation "Vox" tv had a serie called "Wahre Liebe" were always a young attractive couple were testing 2 or 3 local nude beaches or nude lakes.
As a first result of this, less woman are going all nude and the second result is that in Munich one nudistlake/beach openend a special section only for woman. (if i lived in Munich i directly started to apply for a job as securitymember at that lake )
About the German Sauna-scene an other tv station had a serie, as mentioned earlier.
In my country, the Netherlands, it will depending on the fact of the sauna/wellness center is small or big, is situated near or in a big city, is it good accessable, which day and time are you going? Is it nice wheater to lay outside in the sauna garden.
If you plan to visit a sauna in the Netherlands then may be you got to have a look at the dutch website "saunagids.nl", they have all information including a forum whith even more information, mainly in Dutch, but some also in English. One thing in generally i can say that i the Netherlands the ratio Men/ Younger Woman/ Elder Woman is always better during summer period even as in total less people visit the sauna. A lot of men only visit a sauna when it's very cold outside, but a lot o woman also visit a saunacenter in summerperiod because they also like to take a sunbed in the saunagarden.
In the rapidshare links section i will post a few examples about FKK (nudism) in Germany.