WNBR 2013

[simonlintworm]

addition to previous post:

As for the guys who keep pestering people at the start and finish: There are and always will be idiots out there.

In the meantime, here's some Toronto!

[Gen34]

Originally Posted by 27cows

I've posted a lengthy reply in my defence...we shall see if Gen34 has a sense of fair play and allows the comment to appear (it's awaiting moderation). I'm guessing she won't want my side of the story to be heard. Time will tell.

Having said that, I do quite like the idea of being infamous (This is a joke, just in case she comes back and takes this comment literally too).

Of course I posted it. And yes I do recognise the quote.

[Gen34]

Originally Posted by simonlintworm

reaction to misss Gen34:

I am normally not one to partake in philosophical debate, but in this case I feel a strong desire to give my opinion. ( as Gen34 has done and since she doesn't have a monopoly on 'the truth', everyone is entitled to give his/her opinion)

What I strongly reject is the assuptions and gross generalisations Gen34 makes.

I for one have never/ nor do I intend to participate in a WNBR ride. However I applaud everyone who does and feel admiration for them. Most of the riders seem to enjoy the experience and seem to be shame-free. From looking at the pictures I gather it is a liberating experience for most riders. However, if one decides to participate one must realise that pictures/videos will be taken. If one is not aware of this, then I would indeed consider this to be naive.

But is that neccesarily a bad thing? I don't feel it is a crime to document this. The main purpose of the WNBR is to generate public interest in safety for cyclists in traffic and for the environment. So, being documented and generating exposure for these causes should be applauded as well. A WNBR with everyone looking the other way would be missing the point completely in my opinion. Yes, it might still be a liberating experience for the cyclists participating, but it would go by completely unnoticed with no interest for the issues. ( If a tree falls in a forrest with no-one around, does it make a sound?)

Miss Gen34 also seems to relate nudism to the ride, which is missing the point completely again. Nudism doesn't enter into it, because nudism doesn't take place in the public spectrum. Miss Gen34 is free to be a nudist and demand her privacy and not have her pictures taken. And if that were the case, I would be a strong advocate for that as well. Since the WNBR (though people taking part are naked) doesn't classify as nudity, but as an event to generate public awareness on the above mentioned issues, one cannot demand this same privacy or blame others afterwards for not respecting this mistakenly claimed privacy.

I do not feel bad about myself for looking at these pictures. After all, Is it really fair to blame Peeping Tom for looking at Lady Godiva?

I gather Gen34 will probably not read this, but people being linked to this site from her blog might, and I hope this puts matters in some perspective.

There is nothing wrong with participating in a naked bike ride and most members here have nothing but admiration for those who choose to do so. Gen34's assuptions say more about her anxiaties than of most members here.

In the same way I have responded to 27cows on my blog page, I will comment again here. I have no issue with 'photographers' persae. Yes the rides need to be documented and I do of course realise that this is NOT a naturist event. I object to the pushy leering photographers looking for photos PURELY to get crotch and tit images for websites like this. Yes some of them are on here. And some of them will be elsewhere and some of them will no doubt be kept for private use. I have seen lots of really good WNBR images both here and elsewhere that are a good overall view of the ride. I object to the obvious up close and personal harrassment of (obviously) young, slim, female participants who's images have clearly been taken for personal gratification. Some of that harrassment has been documented in other photographs. I posted an image with permission on my blog which included the red head on the London ride who literally had a guy kneeing at her feet with a camera pointed directly upwards up the length of her body as she pushed her way from the start line to set off. Is this acceptable???? Is this documenting the ride?

[Gen34]

Originally Posted by Klondike

I think that she would find it interesting that we do delve into the moral aspects of taking pics here. we don't just post them and walk (or wank) away. Riders do post here also sometimes. That has always intrigued me, that riders DO come here on occasion, look at the pics, talk about their experiences and share their impressions.

But the crux of the matter to me is how OCC is perceived and that somehow, we are "tainted" as though members here are fundamentally different from folks viewing these pics over at Flickr or any number of other sites. We are just normal people. And actually quite a few members here have rather astonishing intellects.

Anyway, this woman should be allowed her say and allowed to rest in peace. If she got herself in a little over her head here, which I kind of suspect, then hopefully time will heal and no one here need add fuel to the fire. In the photographer vs rider debate, I don't see defending photography to the point where open war breaks out. After all, the riders are the stars. Always have been. So if we are guilty of anything, it is simple hero worship and a desire to bring these courageous girls to the attention of others. No, we are not a photography site. The word "chick" is right there in the titles. So yeah, that is our focus but in no way does it diminish or take away from our admiration and awe for what these women do.

OK, then maybe we should rename OCC "One Click Superstar". That about sums it up for me. Does that sound like an attitude that should cause a woman to feel threatened or intimidated or devalued? You are superstars!. Am I getting my point across now??

Klondike

Why am I in over my head? I am taking this from a different perspective and from the comments I have received from riders, photographers and stewards. I am also commenting from the perspective of being a female who felt unsafe going on the ride. Why does that put me over my head. Because there is one of me and about 500 of you?

[Gen34]

It seems to me that everyone here is of the opinion that the girls are clearly aware of where their images are being put. They are not. And you cannot deny that this thread sits along side clearly more pornographic subjects. That in itself gives this thread a bad connotation.

Your website has of course (because I have blogged about it) been picked up on by various people both connected and not connected to the rides. Yay for publicity for all of us I guess. But I was struck and strangely surprised by the number of horrified comments I received from women who had no idea where their images were ending up. I know that at least a few of them went on here to check they weren't included. At least one of them was and I believe it's been dealt with.

Now, yes maybe they are naive. I wasn't shocked or surprised to find out. And perhaps they shouldn't have been. But they were. And it does suggest that participants are very innocent about their reasons for attending the rides. I am sure many of the people attending are not naturists and are using it as an excuse for getting their kit off in public. Fair dues to them, have fun. And they probably don't care where their naked selves are ending up online. But for some people on this ride it's been a very brave thing to do by getting on a bike naked, or even in a bikini and support the message behind the rides. Some have said they won't do it again until things change, and some, like me, will not do it until things do change.

Which is a shame for everyone. Me, you (the legit photographers amongst you anyway) and spectators. And of course the event organisers.

I appreciate there are a million sides to arguments like this. I am just giving mine. And you have given yours and I've been surprised at how balanced some of the reponses have been. And no doubt (by some of the comments I have seen here) you may be surprised I have responded, published your comments on my blog (including Mike of the OCC who says he is going to jerk off to my naked pics even though there aren't any) and I will continue to publish comments that are useful to the discussion (possibly no more from Mike though).

[Pedro the Fisherman]

Next time round I will definitely be naked at whichever WNBRs I attend. No one will give me a second look.

Works for me, but I still only take close shots if given permission, which happens much more often than not. This is not naturism, this is protest and protests feed on publicity. I think 90% of the close snappers keep shots to themselves, even the guy with 'scaffolding' has not updated his Flikr page in two years and takes about 1000 shots an event and visits at least 4 rides a year!

I even took some for him in 2010. He asked a very cute girl who had been swimming nude (but rode topless) to take her panties off (she had just slipped them on) and she happily complied for his photos! There are some shots of two clothed female spectators holding his (and his mates) penis in Hyde park this year too.

EDIT In response to the above post that appeared as I typed mine. I have ridden on about 6 rides over the years as I actually agree with the reason for the ride, I always ride naked too. I take a small cheap camera with me and take general shots, but often with an attractive female in shot. To me, it's a sort of perk! I don't put them on Flikr, just here. I know quite a few of the girls here and many ARE AWARE of being put up on the internet, both on Flikr and adult sites. It's a fact of our times and some find it amusing, not threatening, but I can see some would do.

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by Gen34

Why am I in over my head? I am taking this from a different perspective and from the comments I have received from riders, photographers and stewards. I am also commenting from the perspective of being a female who felt unsafe going on the ride. Why does that put me over my head. Because there is one of me and about 500 of you?

I wouldn't take offense to that remark. Perhaps I didn't mean quite what i said. I think I was referring to what by your own admission was naiveté on your part (which you did state on your blog).

but I'll just say one more thing - it seems that OCC and "pushy, pervy snappers with iPhones, etc" are being connected in your mind. I don't agree that there is a one to one connection here. We are not the home of the pushy, pervy snappers, with the "respectful" snappers posting their pics somewhere else, like on "respectable" websites. This just isn't so. Just a few years ago, for example, very few WNBR pics posted by OCC members were originals taken by members. Most of the pics came from sites like Flickr, an ordinary photo hosting site. And today, i doubt very seriously if most of the pervy, pushy snappers even know that OCC exists. I can understand how a rider might draw obvious conclusions about what types of people contribute to this site, but the facts speak otherwise. In any WNBR thread, original pics make up a minority of the total posted. This year was an exception, as there was much original material, especially from the UK. But overall, the VAST majority of pics posted here from WNBR over the years has either been taken from responsible websites, or were originals taken by RESPONSIBLE photographers who also happen to be members here.

And so, what I would like to submit to you is this: You were at the ride, and you encountered a lot of disrespectful photographers which is unfortunate and shouldn't happen. I personally don't like these guys, and everyone here knows that I am a CONSTANT advocate for photographers being respectful. Anyway, then somehow a connection was made in your mind between these guys and OCC, as though they were there specifically to take pics for this site or sites like this. And so OCC gets dragged into the debate, and we sort of get to feel like we are all being lumped with the pushy pervy snappers. But where specifically was this connection made, and can you say for certain that this was not more of an implied connection rather than a real one? Because it makes a difference to us naturally, as we have been implicated as co-conspirators if you will in your unfortunate experience. Personally, I don't want ANY woman to have a bad experience at ANY WNBR, and I would work with you all to help make sure that this doesn't happen again. In other words, I will work ON YOUR SIDE and against all of the pervy snappers who supposedly you seem to think we all are.

And hopefully, as one of the earliest contributors of original material to OCC (bike rides anyway), I can say that I speak for the other snappers here. I know I do for many of them.

Klondike

[simonlintworm]

Originally Posted by Gen34

In the same way I have responded to 27cows on my blog page, I will comment again here. I have no issue with 'photographers' persae. Yes the rides need to be documented and I do of course realise that this is NOT a naturist event. I object to the pushy leering photographers looking for photos PURELY to get crotch and tit images for websites like this. Yes some of them are on here. And some of them will be elsewhere and some of them will no doubt be kept for private use. I have seen lots of really good WNBR images both here and elsewhere that are a good overall view of the ride. I object to the obvious up close and personal harrassment of (obviously) young, slim, female participants who's images have clearly been taken for personal gratification. Some of that harrassment has been documented in other photographs. I posted an image with permission on my blog which included the red head on the London ride who literally had a guy kneeing at her feet with a camera pointed directly upwards up the length of her body as she pushed her way from the start line to set off. Is this acceptable???? Is this documenting the ride?

No, I do not think that is acceptable. And I do not think that is what we're doing here. We are documenting the events and sharing pictures that do not focus on genitalia. Furthermore, if you take a closer look at the posts on this forum you will see that it is admiration for the riders that dominates the comments. We do not make fun of or degrade them. As to your example of the redheaded girl: That is totally unacceptable in my honest opinion.

On this site we are respectful.You say that you were surprised that most posts here were quite balanced. It would grace you if you put that on your blog.

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by Drondo

This thread is starting to put me off posting anymore of my videos!

Only 21 thanks for my last video at post #650 anyway

Have a look at it Gen34, is it porn?

Did I get permission from every single person that appears in the video, no, clearly impossible. A naked lady walks down a street in London in broad daylight, I take a video, does that make me a pervert?

yeah, and BTW - I'm off to Seattle and kind of hope I can put this behind me too. I really didn't want to be thinking about this today, but I am. I gotta put it out of my mind...

Klondike

[Klondike]

Originally Posted by Klondike

In other words, I will work ON YOUR SIDE and against all of the pervy snappers who supposedly you seem to think we all are.

My apologies for that remark - that is not true as you have stated above.

Klondike