[Cigar4u]

First of all, I want to thank others for contributing to this thread. It has been a long time since anyone other than myself has taken the time to post here.

The last thing I want to do is discourage anyone from posting, but I'm going to have to be kind of a downer here.

When I started this thread a while back, one of my hopes was that women who had experienced real life or staged CFNF wrestling matches -- particularly the humiliated losers -- would share their experiences or that someone would post candid photos from real or staged amateur CFNF bouts.

That has not happened for a very good reason. There simply is not that much material out there.

CFNF wrestling is truly a fantasy. Rarely, if ever, does one woman strip another woman nude and remain clothed herself in a fight situation. But that rarety is what makes the fantasy so erotic for those of us who enjoy this fetish.

Think about it. Have you really ever seen a fight where a clothed woman stripped another woman completely naked? If you have, treasure the memory because it just does not happen that often. And if you have photos of it, by all means, post them here and share them with the rest of us!

I have spent about 30 years of my adult life trying to get women to engage in CFNF wrestling matches and allow me to photograph or videotape them. I have had zero luck.

In almost all cases, I have asked prostitutes to do it, as they primarily will do almost anything for money -- almost.

I did not find it difficult to find women who would gladly play the winner. But getting someone to portray the nude loser -- and have it put on film -- has been the tough part.

I wish I had a dime for everytime a woman has said to me things like, "Can I at least keep my panties on?" or "I don't think I can do this because I know her (the designated winning wrestler) too well."

Once I was able to get two pay-for-play gals to start a match in bikinis, but when it came time for the stripping, the gal portraying the losing grappler got cold feet and said, "This is too lame. I don't want to do this."

Both women gave me back my money -- less cab fare -- got dressed in their street clothes and left. For prostitutes to turn down a date and return your money is not very common (and kind of humiliating).

There are a number of threads on this message board of women willingly posing nude for the camera. One of my favorites is the Naked in Las Vegas thread.

Why would women willingly pose nude for those type of shots, but not for a CFNF wrestling match?

The answer likely is that it is one thing for a woman to lay spread eagle on a bed in a Vegas hotel room and show off her bushy chi chi for her boyfreind's camera, but it is quite another for her to lay in that same degrading pose with a fully clothed woman standing over her doing a triumphant muscle pose while placing a barefoot on the "defeated" gal's boobs, coochie or face.

I think a lot of women who otherwise would pose nude just find it too embarassing to be photographed in such a humiliating position with another woman, especially one who is wearing clothes. Remember, photographs create a permanent record of an event, whether it is staged or real.

That brings us to why almost everything that is posted here is of a commercial nature.

The adult film actress Lisa Comshaw has made a number of CFNF fight videos for a few fetish wrestling companies -- almost always as the humiliated loser. A number of those matches have been posted here. She undoubtedly gets paid quite well for her services.

But, on some level, Lisa also must get a thrill out of doing that type of activity otherwise she would not have done so many CFNF matches. In fact, CFNF is practically all she does now when it comes to fetish wrestling videos. Being the naked, whining, losing rassler has kind of become her trademark.

Also keep in mind that while women have been fetish wrestling on film dating back to the late 1940s, it is only in the last 10 years that the video companies have started producing occasional CFNF matches. Most of what has been produced in the last 50 to 70 years has been clothed vs. clothed, topless vs. topless, bikini vs. bikini or nude vs. nude matches.

For example, I have gone through every catalgue I could find from the old Triumph Films -- the granddaddy of fetish wrestling distributors -- and could not find a single CFNF match produced by that company from the late 1960s through the 1980s. And they made hundreds of Super 8, Beta and VHS tapes of gals wrestling.

It seems that short of getting paid porn actresses to do CFNF videos or photo sessions in recent times, this type of material simply would not exist.

Don't get me wrong. I am sure there are women out there who do fantasize about being beaten, stripped and dominated by other women. There is a fetish for practically everything, so I do not doubt there is one for that.

Maybe Nicola indeed is one such lady.

If Nicola indeed is a woman -- and I am, for the sake of argument, going to give her the benefit of the doubt that she is a real woman and not some 13-year-old boy who stole his father's One Click Chick password and is getting his rocks off playing around on this website -- and she wants to explore her fantasies I whole-heartedly emplore her to do so.

And, by all means, Nicola have photos of your humiliating defeat taken and posted here on this thread.

I know from the many responses and thanks to my postings of commercial material on this thread that there is a number of people out there who would love to see some new stuff of ordinary women engaging in staged or real CFNF matches.

But given my own experiences with this subject, I am not holding my breath that this will happen anytime soon.