Members please read- No pics.
 

Hi all,
I have been a member of this forum for a while but I am coming to post now with a question. It may sound obvious but i want to judge people's reactions.
I run a film production company that deals with making short adult films for distribution over the internet by third parties. We currently produce for other sites to sell, but we are looking to make and sell short videos for ourselves.
We have been trying to guage the markets for various types of films, and one of the possibilities is ENF videos. These videos would be professionally shot, made with the elements of ENF (ie. girls tied and left for others, public stripping etc...) It is possible that we would not tell the actors what was going to happen to them to give it a more realistic element. The videos would be made by us with our story lines, but there is an option for people to pay a small fee and have their ideal video made for sale if we think it is a good enough story.
The videos would be sold through our production website, be about 10-15 minutes long, and be sold as downloads. They would retail about £5 (or $7) and you would be able to use these downloads to burn to DVD or watch on your computer.
Having been a member here for a while I think I know what you guys and girls like, but ideas and discussions from the people who would be looking at the videos would always be welcome.
What i would like to know from you is if there is a market? Would people be willing to try a few downloads that they knew were ENF based and contained real(ish) situations?
I am sorry if this is the wrong place for this, and Alex please feel free to move/delete etc... if this post is not acceptable. However, it would be greatly appreciated if people would take the time to give their thoughts. We have enjoyed success with other adult ventures that we have tried, but would like a more neiche market that we don't think is really catered for. The money is there, the time is there, the equipment is there. But is the interest there?
Feel free to ask any questions or give your views.
Thanks for your time!

reply
 

I think that this sounds like a great idea, I would definitly be interested in this kind of thing, and if there should be, mark "should", something that isn't excactly your preference, you could always skip that little movie and go on with the next. To me this sounds like a very promising thing.
Thank you

Definitely interested, especially if they're downloadable. I enjoy the sort of stuff Sirseph posts a lot, but any ENF type scenarios would be good, it's so hard to get hold of this kind of thing.

I would definitely be interested. A short description and short sample to verify quality would be good.

ENF films/videos
 

Hey Warney,

As a fan of this stuff, I say go for it, please! You are correct in saying there is not a whole lot of ENF material on the current market.

If you want some feeback from a business end, with regard to how my film "Babysitting Without a Net" (see thread below) is doing, feel free to pm me or e-mail me!

Looking forward to it,

Joe

warney59,

Send me a private message with details about your film production company.

Thanks,

When it comes to paying for my adult entertainment I'd usually say no way in hell.... this however sounds very unique... I for one would pay to download and own such videos...

The only problem I see or have seen with other websites that have tried to fill other various 'specialty' areas is that very few are able to find and hold onto that genuine 'in the moment' amateurish feel.
They always seem to come off as being totally fake / staged....

I'm not sure how it would work out, or what type of legal issues you'd run into... but I think the idea of not telling the actors / actressess what is about to happen will make it all very interesting.

I think I can speak for anyone that has ever tried to find vids on the net..... there really is a lack of PANTSING VIDS to be found... if you can maintain the element of suprise and genuine ENF moments.... not to mention good camera angles ( LOTS OF SKIN ) .... IMHO you'd have a winner...

A few facts
 

I think it's a great idea. ENF is so hard to come by. Just look at this board. It is littered with stuff that is either non embarassed or non nude. There seems to be an abundance of voyeur, amateur, pee fetish, etc. This board started with predominately ENF material, but the defintion of ENF has gotten much much broader over time. That is not the board's fault, evidently there is not that much new material out there. Which is where you come in. Many fall short when attempting this, look at National Lampoon's strip poker. If you were able to make good production quality video featuring decent looking ENF, not smiling, not crying, or BAD acting, having to strip IN FRONT OF MEN,(I do not buy that two girls get together to play strip poker results in ENF, no matter how much money Stripgamecentral.com is making.), in a variety of storylines, you would sell many videos to each individual. Most of dnanpa's hottest sellers are of reluctant stripping in strip games and the Chikan train molester videos. i just don't have a thing for Asian chicks...in my book he's your only competition, but does not make his own videos. Also, a suggestion. #1 make one good strip poker video with multiple players and both sexes. Arrange i t where you don't see the male nudity if you want. You will make a fortune. That topic, the lack of a decent ENF strip poker game video has been the topic of more posts than possibly even the "girls on the toilet" series. #2 be specific. While this may sound silly, I think everyone came to this board for the same reason. EMBARASSED, meaning reluctant, not tearful, nor joyful...no dancing as they strip. NUDE, not covering, not hiding, not speading, not posing. They should remain EMBARASSED the entire time. And then FEMALE, obviously. Now my own personal tastes for ENF range from angry to pretty darn upset,but I get turned off by crying... but I don't think your definition should be that broad. You will lose some people if you veer to far toward a force, or **** scenario, and likewise you will lose a lot more if you veer the other way and it has a playful feel. For example, when I see a pic of a girl coming out of the shower, smiling, flipping off the camera, naked, covering, with a caption of "CAUGHT", I don't think ENF. It does nothing for me. Obviously others don't share my opinion, and I'm not knocking them for that. My point is that you should capitalize on what 99% of the people would all agree is ENF, and in my humble opinion strip poker is a genre unto itself and could be a gold mine. The last thing I'll say, and I thank you if you've read this far, is the story behind the picture or video is important. If I see a pic of a girl outside naked and it reads "locked out of her apartment" Yawn. Was it the result of a lost bet? Mugging? Wadrobe malfunction? The details are what does it. Take a look at the classic subgenres of porn. Secretary, cheerleader, MILF, sl*t, virgin, teacher etc.. I think if you focus on who they are, rather than bust size, you will be doing yourself a favor. A teacher stripping in front of a room full of students is more EMBARASSING than a nameless young nymph stripping in front of whoever. You can go to a strip club or any skinimax or pay per view movie or event and see overtly sexual, silicone enhanced bimbos strutting their stuff. The members here tune in to the likes of The Lingerie Bowl or National Lampoon, WWE wrestling, just to name a few, in hopes or seeing ENF whether staged or real and are constantly dissapointed. They search endlessly through webshots, search the entire internet for any related topic like nude beaches and college iniation and audition and amateur pages for a glimpse. They visit every related board from LOTFW's to SWOPPIX, DLAMMY's, Siggy's, Byron's, ASN, and have been doing so for YEARS, because I recognize the screen names. Ok, I'm done. It would be crazy for you not to do this. It may not be the broadest and largest fan base, but certainly the most dedicated.

Accidental exposure, downblouse, upskirt, strip search, nude outside, inside, in the shower, out of the shower, flashing, top/bottom pulled down have been done to death. Assuming you aren't doing a reality show where these situations are performed with a truly reluctant amateur, I think having an actress act out these scenarios is lazy and boring. And any amateur who agrees to be put in these situations, whether paid or not, in front of one or a thousand, in my book a willing participant. Willing participants don't make for good embarassement. Even the "amatur strip poker vid" with the drunk girl that is so heavily applauded around here features a girl that is drunk, and whining about stripping, but you know she wants to be there. She never asks to get out of it. "Oh, fooey, I lost again!" Use the "oh, shit" test. If the woman doesn't say "oh shit" when she has to take off her clothes, or "oh shit" is not written all over every inch of her face, then it's transparent she's posing and no amount of setup is going to save you. How do you accomplish "oh shit"? Put a person in a real, or real looking "oh shit" situation. You see it all over...sex crazed secretaries, nurses, teacher, boss, student, cheerleader, in outfits purchased at a third rate lingerie store acting out poorly written "fantasies" on crappy sets that are poor replicas of doctor's offices, court rooms, classrooms and restaurants. With every glimpse you are reminded you are watching a stripper and it has no realism to it. I simply do not fantasize that in my real life I walked into the doctor's office and was met by a nympho nurse in crotchless panties. However, that same nurse having to strip out of her normal work clothes to decontaminate because of a biohazard in front of coworkers might garner an "oh shit". Visit the Academy of Stripping naked story board for ideas. Students forfeiting items of clothing for wrong answers, although not plausible in real life, would achieve the same thing. Naked hostages, strip games, and gang strippings in any familiar location are easy scenarios. You could get creative with courtroom witnesses having to reveal themselves in court for whatever reason. Or use a recent "O.C." storyline where the characters were stuck atop a billboard and used theire clothes to make a rope to get down. A saleslady must meet her new client at a nude spa. A reporterette interviews the local jock who demands an item of clothing for every question answered, and she really wants the story. Part two: the lockerrooms are off limits to female reporters unless they disrobe. (It's not fair that the reproters get to gawk at the athletes). Mainstream TV and movies have teased at all of the above, using camera angles, body doubles, and my favorite (not) the bare back shot. You have an opportunity to pick up where they left off, and deliver the goods. St. Elsewhere had its doctors performing surgery in the nude because the risk of infection. LAX had Locklear decontaminated. Lady cops that must strip in full view of other cops and the media...one item of clothing for every hostage released. New restaurant policy...15 minutes for your food or your waitress strips. Jane Curtain took it off for a cause. In Fortress, a teacher and her students must strip down to swim to get away from the bad guys. A recent episode of Vegas saw a lady cop going undercover at a swinger's party and playing strip poker. The scene was over right after she removed her first item of clothing. What a great setup. But of course, no delivery!! Heck, why not regular poker? Texas hold em and if you're short on the bet you have to REALLY bet it all. How embarrassing to not be in a strip game where multiple people are in various stages of undress and you are the unlucky one who must show everything, but in a regular game where the thought of nudity hadn't even occurred until too late. The HBO series Dream On did a pretty good job of this in the episode, the name of the game is five card stud, but the actress only took off her top. However, because she had lost all her money, including the money for her honeymoon, she is pissed off and bets her shirt and bra, which must be put on the table. When she loses that hand, and the clothes, she is really embarassed, and sits covering her breasts for the remainder of the episode. Lotfw's Scenes of Stripping Database is a good source for ideas.Takes some work, planning, and can be screwed up royally with poor sets or "costumes". "Babysitting" took the effort and it paid off. On the other hand, I've seen girls, I've seen girls naked, and I've seen girls naked outside, and there's even bondage sites dedicated to girls tied up naked outside. Ho hum.

I would certainly buy at least one video to check it out if it looked good. If it was good, and not too shy with the nudity I'm sure I'd buy more.

It's about time .... but it has to look real .. very real .. crap will never sell.... very very real OK then im in

Yes, yes and yes. $5 or so sounds like it would be a reasonable price to pay for something there's not a whole lot of. Hell, I'd pay $15 if you made a Hidden Nudity film. Let us know more about your plans for this.

Fango

I agree with almost everything Smegol said, especially the part about willing subjects make for poor embarassment. So the problem remains, how do you find people who don't want to be seen naked, but are willing to be naked in a video production. I'm going to mention some of the best "strip game" video clips to try to find a common idea thread...
-strip foosball (was she the only girl at that party???),
-the various Vitamina strip poker vids (I wish I spoke Spanish),
-a couple of the Rasypokka clips (particularly the ones held in public),
-Everything goes (for its time it was good, it wouldn't work quite as well today),
-a couple of the Dog eat Dog games (somewhere in a vault there has to be a copy of the uncensored footage),
-and i'll give a bit of credit to the first 1:41 of drunk strip poker (i wonder if the girl inthat knows how many times her exploits that night have been around the net).

I think the best "games" need to be guy/girl. The presence of a non-playing audience or on-lookers help add to the "sexual tension" of the moment. If the players involved have some familiarity with each other, it helps add to the trash talking aspect of the game. The conversations between the players often adds to the embarassment of the moment. In addition to not wanting to be seen naked, the players should want to see their opponents get naked (or at least act that way).

Selection of "talent" for the video is the key. I've suggested in the past using strippers from some of the more "local" strip clubs (as opposed to big time "G-string Diva" types). Tell them to play the game without their "stripper" personae. The other choice would be to try at a "spring break" location. If you can give them enough incentive to want to win, maybe you could find the girls before they "go wild" for some other video and get them into a game at the local nightclub.

As for the feel of the video, you have 2 choices. Either try to make feel like a "candid" party (tough to do), or do it with a "game show" mentality where the people are aware ofthe camera, but play it to a host or hostess (or one of each).
My idea would be: do it as a gameshow at a bar or club (it makes for better atmosphere), have a variety of games that are quick enough to keep the pace up, but give enough time for adequate "play" between the players, as players end up naked, have them do a quick "dare" and then give them a modest coverup. A small apron or loin cloth would be sufficient (enough to provide some cover, but loose enough to be tugged at from time to time). At the end of the night, all of the naked players (hopefully there would be a good mix of guys and girls) would do a final game for either a good prize or a harsh dare (maybe they have to leave without their clothes).

As for how much male nudity you want to show or how far the dares should go is up to you. If the girls can play it up enough when the guys lose it adds to the tension. IF you show too much explicit nudity either way, it will eventually lose the appeal. If someone is totally exposed unwillingly on camera for an extended period of time it's either staged and consensual, or it's criminal (ya can't have it both ways).

Just a few thoughts.. .but if the video is good, I would definitely pay 5 bucks or so to get a copy.

Good luck, i hope you have success.


-

Hello,

I too own a production company, and we had considered this path before. We have a KILLER script (it's actually very well developed). The problem we have is that we do way too many mainstream productions, and we never devised a good method to release this under a different name. We were afraid it might negatively affect business with our corporate and government clients.

Our company has released edgy titles before, but nothing you might consider 'adult'. However, this script was developed over the past 9 years, and would make an interesting and captivating video. We concentrated on the situations, and not so much on the sexual aspect of it. In fact, the script calls for no actual sex acts. But there would be plenty of nudity and intense ENF situations.

Success of a film like this would depend heavily on the acting performance and the director. I was prepared to step up to the plate in that regard.

In regards to your question about surprising the talent in various scenes, I recommend against it. One thing you can do however, is agree ahead of time that there would be surprises and outline all the parameters they might be subject to. But I would certainly not proceed in that fashion without some sort of understanding between the producers and the talent. There are ways to create a very broad and generalized model release which would encompass these things. But just make sure each of those possibilities are detailed specifically prior to production.

If there's any way I can help with a production like this, let me know. I feel we have an ace of a script, and I would love to produce it. Perhaps one day I will. I just need to find the appropriate means to do so.

Yesss
 

Willing to pay - willing to contribute ideas

Thanks
 

Well, looks like we might be getting somewhere with this. The initial response has been great and I the reason i brought it up on this board was that people are able to say what they want and don't want in videos. If you guys and girls are going to pay for something that appeals to your turn-on then it damn well better be what you want! I know that many people I have talked to, and it has been brought up in this post, look round for this kind of stuff and then get disappointed when second rate productions come out with no real ENF moments.

I agree with what most people say here. We would look to produce situations that are real enough to be sexy, but with actresses that are not so over the top with their "embarrassment" they look fake. I am looking to move this idea forward next week, as long as the figures back up the idea! Blasted accounts people always want to see the money before they make the leap.

VidPro- I know what you mean about not wanting to take the jump with a mainstream production company. We are lucky that we have two offices, under two names. One deals with our productions for football clubs, short films and mainstream productions, the other deals with our adult side. We have produced for Playboy, The Range Rover Production Co. and some adult film channels. I must say that when we first went into this area we did lose mainstream clients as they felt it was not something they wanted to become associated with. I think it is important to keep the two sides seperate and try and have different names and locations. Also, I agree with your view that a full disclosure must be sought to keep the peace with the actors. It is one of the things that makes true ENF films difficult, but is something that we feel we can work around to make a good run of films.

Keep up the ideas, and if there are any specific areas you would like to see, or things that you all can't stand in films, then let me know. You can PM me on this forum, or send an e-mail. I shall read all that is said, especially if they are as indepth and thought out as smegol12's post. Hopefully if we decide to go ahead in this area we will have something in production within 6-8 weeks. I think we may even make the first download free for OCC members. That may be something we can sort out at the time. It is important to get the fanbase and show people it is worth spending a few bucks.

Thanks again.

Without asking to see your tax returns or anything, I think a lot of us would like to know: did you recoup your investment yet?

People who don't have much money - well - just don't have much money. And people who do have money didn't get that way by throwing it away. The bottom line is that no matter how much you like this stuff, I'm sure you can't keep producing it if it's hemorrhaging money.

So how's about a ballpark here? Losing your shirt? Breaking even so you can keep up the hobby as long as your interest holds? Or is there a potential money‑making industry here?

I understand no one in any business wants to give away proprietary information, but I seriously doubt that anybody in the adult film industry is going to compete with your work anytime soon. And as has been mentioned here, mainstream film makers will avoid this like the plague. Although the comparison is a twisted one, there is about as little chance that Hollyweird will start mass‑producing ENF films as there is that they will rush to steal a piece of Mel Gibson's billion‑dollar "niche" market. Even if they tried, they'd screw it up beyond recognition.

Oh, and call me a maniac, but if there are studios out there with the facilities and people in place; and there are producers (e.g, you) who don't mind having their names associated with this kind of project ‑‑ then why the heck don't you people MAKE A DEAL??? Why would a studio need to set up a shell organization when there's already somebody out there? On the books, you can basically "rent out" their services under your name. The studio's name doesn't have to be on the project at all. And there's no reason a producer has to finance the whole thing out of his pocket; the compensation can include any amount of profit sharing the parties want.

You have interesting points. I'd like to offer some insight based on my own experiences. It's true (and actually normal) that the producer usually doesn't finance these projects (at least entirely). However, the difficult aspects of assembling a production like this are:

Finding the funds. This sounds like it might be easy, but in order to find the funds... you have to shop the idea around. And, in doing so, can cause problems with your regular clientele if word gets out about the project.

Finding Talent. As an established studio, I can certainly find talent very easily. However, if I don't want my studio name on a project, it's a lot more difficult to find talent when they've never heard of you or can't verify who you are. When we do casting calls for various projects we get a ton of response simply because we have an established history of production. A film of this type is a delicate thing to produce. We've done similar, but non-nude projects and even those sometimes cause problems for us with our client base.

Employees. Not everybody who works at a studio might feel comfortable with such a project. Perhaps they are comfortable with the concept, but working closely with all these people they know on such a project might make them uneasy. Everything from brainstorming to issuing directives to the cast and crew can become challenging with such a tender subject.

Locations. For a project like this, and to make it believable, the locations need to sometimes be public. Finding a place to shoot (even for a "normal" production) can be challening. Finding a location to shoot publically but at the same time restrict access to the general public AND work with the story would be a real challenge.

Distribution. I know from years of experience that this is where the money is. Finding good solid distribution for a project like this will be difficult. You need major backing to get this out there. You need a company who has the means to manufacture and publish large quantities of the finished product. Then, the product needs to be marketed so people know about it, and where to buy it. It's not imporssible, but I suspect various distributors might shy away from this type of film.


I am not trying to be Mr. Negative. I'm just pointing out obsticles that I've had to overcome in the past for various projects. I recommend for a project such as this:

No sex, or at least non-graphic sex.

Compelling storyline which will help justify it's existence.

Quality production value.

Because distribution might be challenging, consider selling the finished product to a subscription cable network (showtime, for example.) If the quality is decent (or average), sometimes they pay $250,000 to $350,000 for exclusive rights to broadcast the film.

Did you begin your company with two groups, or did you branch off the adult stuff at a later date? If later, how difficult was that transition? I'd be interested in hearing about your experience on making both studios productive without creating conflict. We have two offices as well, but they are both under the same name.

The acting and the directing is what is going to make a good ENF film. I'm interested in hearing about how your production proceeds. Depending on the scope of the project, I think you may need more pre-production time than you outlined. Finding the right cast will be essential, and finding the right storyline will drive the whole thing. I think that's going to take some serious time to do it right.

I'm genuinely curious about this because we have considered doing this before. Would you be shooting on film or video? Would it mostly be studio shoots, or location shoots? I guess I'm interested to see how big of a scope the production would be. Do you have a target for distribution (online vs. retail vs. cable)?

I wish you well with this project. Although I believe it will be challenging, I think if done correctly the end result could generate a good return on investment.

Ooops... my bad. I overlooked this. I was thinking you were talking about a feature length film. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Personally, I think realism is way over-rated. Remember how popular that wacky "Juiced" video game commercial was?

And when it comes to acting, can anybody here think of an ENF film moment that was hurt by too MUCH acting? The vast majority are hurt by under-acting -- or arguably none at all. The average actress can do "realistic" pain, sadness, joy, anger, whatever, but my guess is that most nude actresses will be pretty clueless when it comes to acting embarrassed. That's not a bad thing, it's just reality; they either don't care or have developed defenses. I suspect you'll get the best results by letting them lose themselves in melodrama. It's a lot easier to ask them to go over-the-top from the start and then ease up if necessary, than to try to do it the other way around.


If you're not sure of the market, why not start with a five-minute test shoot of a simple ENF scenario just to see how many free downloads people make, and ask for comments? How much could that cost? That's the kind of stuff film students do every day.

Beggars can't be choosers. We're not that picky about production values. Seriously, aside from Helmhold's ONE film, who the heck is your competition here?

First things first - What budget (soup to nuts, from paying the actresses to the sets, and everything) for the project do you already have in mind? How much were you planning on spending?

What return are you seeking on this investiment (in terms of a percentage) or are you doing it "pro bono" or for the love of the genre?

I have an idea but I'd rather pitch it to you in a private message, I'll send you one.

Yeah, if you do a casting call for a soap opera and then ask the actress to strip, it's going to cause some confusion.

This is called "erotica;" so what? A lot of companies do "sexy" nudity without pornograpy nowadays. We're talking about the same kind of thing, except having the actresses try to act like something besides mindless sl*ts for a change.

I'm not saying that would be easy, but if you're heading from the opposite direction, and trying to go from complete mainstream to the kind of all-ENF film we're talking about, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. The most you could end up with would be another Porky's, but (If you "pushed" the issue hard enough) maybe it would have a few seconds longer shower scene.

Or, better yet, how about getting Speilberg onboard? I'm pretty sure we're not talking about the same thing at all here. Even those lame-brained softcore porn pieces of crap can get sold on this scale -- not because they are any good, or even particularly successful, but because they are a known commodity. What we're talking about is a competely NEW concept. This is not the kind of product you can just sell like the ten-thousandth action/adventure film made this year. This market will have to be built up from scratch. And that means starting small; getting in on the ground floor and working your way up.

Just my opinion
 

While I agree beggars can't be choosers, I interpreted the original question to be what are we, the members of this board looking for in an ENF video. My earlier rant was not intended to be so finicky, but in a perferct world, some of the sexy scenarios I mentioned would be ideal. Would I settle for less? Sure, we all have and were glad to get what we got. The Juiced ad is a great example. The ENF moments could be so much more, done so much better, with so much more tension, better acting, more realistic women, more creative scenarios, but to date they just simply ARE NOT. THey could be, but ARE NOT. So sure we love Juiced. Could have been better though. For a 30 second commercial it was great. For a video I'm paying for, I would like more than Juiced delivers. And i don't consider myself a killjoy for saying that. I think this is why this thread has received so much attention, and why I personally went in to such detail. Never before has a person, or company in this position cared enough to ask my opinion on this subject, and I for one won't let this opportunity pass to possibly influence a wonderful, yet underdeveloped genre. I remember an Amy Lynn Baxter movie, Bikini Bistro, featuring Isabella Fortea as a waitress who loses a bet and has to take off her top, in front of just one cook, is apprehensive/pensive for about 3 seconds, and then turns nympho on the cook. I must have watched it a thousand times. Was the acting good? No. Girl good looking? yes. Situation sexy? yes. Set design impressive. Absolutely no. Worth buying for those 3 seconds. Hell yes...by comparison. Because of the lack of what I am looking for, that scene made it worth buying. Would you sell a half ass effort to at least every other member on this board. Yes. But with a "babysitting" effort, you would become the leader of a cult. The Skinimax type erotic thriller replaced bawdy 80's T&A comedies after Basic Instinct came out. No one rents those for the story, and the only thing they are thrilled about is seeing nudity. So, you're answer at first in the sense of getting the "company" to go along with a full length video, might be to sell it as a regular sexy thriller chock full of ENF moments rather than telling them you're reinventing the wheel. Rather than having the starlet seduced by the killer, have her completely embarassed by the killer, blackmailed into situations, or whatever. Shannon Tweed's movies often danced around this where she wasn't instantly enamored only to find out she was dating a psycho. Often she was quite reluctant to be in the situation, but far to quickly was overcome with lust in my opinion. T&A comedies like National Lampoon's straight to video, evidently are all aimed at pre-teens. Nothing is more irritating to me to pick up a box at the video store with a cover that looks like the movie is the next "Zapped", I turn it over and it says, rated for A SCENE of sexuality, language. Sorry, getting off the soapbox. My point is that these feeble attempts at T&A comedy are always checked out. Someone is renting them. And I guarantee when they get them home and find that the only nude scene was a 3 second shot of some extra, not the cute actress the story was all about, they are dissapointed. And when it happens to me i remember that "Full Moon Video" never delivers, only teases. So I skip their movies and rent something else. We've all been duped too many timess by Lampoon. Everyone knows now to save your money. Likewise, a good reputation for delivering the goods will go a long way. Google search the name Alain Siritsky, he makes these kinds of films. Some may remember "Le click", which I think was later made into a crappy little series on showtime. While not ENF, he's the only one currently staying true to light hearted T&A, and was involved with the recent video, "Ain't it cool", a Zapped clone. Anyway, I think you can make a lighthearted flic and it will sell to those not interested in ENF just because it's a T&A comedy, if you ever end up thinking about making a full length film full of ENF. Again thanks for reading, and if there is anyway that we can help support your project, don't hesitate to ask, I'll gladly sign the petition.

How did they do it?
 

To get some ideas flowing (everyone has their favorite type of situations)

Name/describe a favorite movie /tv scene..

I will go first (no nudity in these) these are examples of unlikely situations:
Wicked Dreams of Paula Schultz - Elke Sommers while escaping from her "captors"
Elke polevaults over a barbed wire fence and loses her dress then after diving into a lake
to escape loses her underthings to a fishing line

Seargent Deadhead - Group of female soldiers showering are forced outside in towels when a emergency alarm
goes off. They are forced to drop their towels when an officer drives by.

Elke Sommer fleeing the Pink Panther nudist colony... The list goes on and on. Ah, the classics. :)

But none of those examples really apply any more. For years, no one ever explored whether you could make an entire show out of that sort of thing. Did you have to spend 99% of the time developing the character before her embarrassment "mattered?" Would that "naughty" feeling wane if the situation lasted longer than a few seconds? Would more explicit nudity "ruin" the mood.

Now that Helmhold has answered all of those questions with a resounding "NO!" we have to leave these beloved (but now obsolete) examples behind. We need to break new ground. We need not just vignettes, but entire PLOTS that revolve around this; complete with a character who can keep the energy going indefinitely, and an environment that can support the right balance of risk and safety; ongoing embarrassment without revolt or resignation.

Personally, I believe this calls not for realism (let's face it, reality sucks, that's why we're all here) but verisimilitude. It's called "suspension of disbelief." The story doesn't have to be "real," it just has to WORK within the right parameters. If you stop and think about it rationally, did anything the brats did to strip Laura-Ann in the "Babysitting" movie make any sense? No; but that's the way it's SUPPOSED to be. It's all about power exchange, and the slippery slope that ensues.

Good examples of extended ENF simply don't exist in any prior movies. But some ENF stories provide examples. As Helmhold illustrated in the Ann the Babysitter stories where the main character's own arrogance makes her an irresistible target for the whims of her bratty charges. The "Jenny" series of stories is another example where the eternally optimistic main character is the pivot for a never‑ending series of ENF situations; the sunnier she gets, the more spiteful her "best friend" becomes.

Even the best movies are based on a formula of one type or another. I think we have one here: a haplessly naive and overly repressed protagonist; trusted but cynical antagonists to advance the story; and a potential "audience" to provide the motivation. Plug any combination of those together and ‑ boom ‑ you've got the basis for a script:

1. Freshman co‑ed -- upperclass "popular clique" crowd -- junior college dorm with showers down the hall;
2. Professional women -- brusque FBI investigator -- office subject to chemical terrorist threat;
3. Neighborhood flirt -- jealous housewives taking her on girls' night out -- hypnotist show.
4. Status-deprived divorcee -- once‑nerdy female high school classmate now successful manager of... -- exclusive health spa.

I think anyone here could put together a screenplay based on any of the above. Personally, I wouldn't even start with the plot. Just see what actress you have found who can handle the acting and nudity required for the lead, get a list of the supporting cast, and see what sets you have to work with. Then just write the story to fit what you've got.

Western, sci‑fi, detective mystery, feel free to toss in any other components you want. Every other genre has been done to death; we have 40 minutes of film history so far. Inspiration is NOT the limiting factor here.

One scene I'm fond of is the piano scene from weird science. For anyone who hasn't seen the movie I'll set the scene: There's a house party, and a bunch of revelers are gathered in a large room with a piano. The girl in question is playing away when the titular weird science starts going down. Suddenly objects in the room start getting sucked out the window. Starting with the d****s, then some furniture, then finally the piano, the stool...The girl hangs onto something on the far wall and manages to hold out until her shirt and skirt are sucked off, then she's sucked out the window as well. It goes to pretty much full nudity and would be a perfect scene for me if it wasn't for the bizarre lighting that kicks in about halfway through.

Part of why I like it so much is that there's kind of a buildup where the girl isn't aware of her predicament until it's too late. Most of the partgoers clear out when the furniture starts dissapearing, leaving the girl blithely playing away while her surroundings are denuded. There was something about her lack of awareness of what was going on that made the scene work that much better for me. Maybe I'm alone in that thinking.

Another scene that did the same thing was the magnet schtick at the end of screwballs. Stuff starts going to hell in a handbasket all around the girl and she just keeps singing away like nothing's happening. Even after her costume starts to give way she's still pretty okay for a few seconds before she notices. Of course that scene was famously ruined by the credits. (What a ripoff)

Finally, way back when there was a Japanese production where a guy in a fake beard was using telekinesis to disrobe students at a Japanese high school. The girl keeps walking and going about her business as her duds are magically stripped away. She doesn't notice what has befallen her until it's pointed out to her, then we get the big ENF reaction.

I know the main reason why I like this type of scene: There's more bang for my buck. Real girls in real situations are too fast with their hands: No sooner have their boobies been freed from the confines of their textile prison than they are recaptured by their hands. In a fictional situation you can have an extended lapse in perception which allows me , prevert that I am, to get a better look at the goods.

But there's something else, too. I'm not sure what it is, and it could just be something that is specifically wrong with me, but there's something that really gets me about a chick in a normal situation who, if even for the briefest of moments, isn't aware that she's naked.

Put it this way, if any aspiring filmmaker were to make a better lit variation of the piano scene from weird science, I'd be right there with my money.

I've probably said enough.

jenny, zapped, those pictures, and kopema
 

I think kopema makes valid points, but if you'll allow me to retort without taking it as a personal attack, I'd like to draw some comparisons. "Those pictures", a story on the ASN board, I apologize for not remembering the name of the author, extends ENF to what 1000 episodes?, which I would consider extended ENF. Now, my own personal tastes dictate that at this point I feel like the main character should be numb to it, and I don't care anymore that she's naked, partly because she spends literally DAYS naked, and that's where it loses it's appeal for me. Again, just my own personal tastes. Jenny, on the other hand, and even though I'm not a fan of the genre because the outrageous ways she loses her clothes sometimes are beyond my own personal suspension of disbelief(strong wind, mischievous boyscouts, etc.), I think it delivers in one respect. Jenny gets in a situation, gets naked, gets embarassed, gets dressed, repeat. I think Jenny or other main character could work at a job where an Enf situation arises, gets home, gets in another, goes out on the town, gets in another, gets pulled over by a cop, gets in another, etc. etc. I don't believe you have to think within the box and assume that it has to be "extended", and if you're just putting ONE situation and ONE result in you're video, sure, you're going to have to rely on the actress, and strong emotional, building plot, character arcs, and the like. Forget character arcs. They are a luxury. Your video is not dependent on them because it is a stroke movie. Yes, there are parameters you should shoot for, and you may hit a home run and get everyone to really care and feel like "they know " your Jenny. But it's not necessary, and should not be given more attention than the stories and fantasies that your fanbase would like to see. Babysitting's teacher is a flat character. She's uptight, and a teacher, period. We don't know or care about her childhood or what she likes to do in her spare time. You are not making "The Piano" here.. Heck, a waitress who's bar goes topless would get embarassed. Then, even if she's been working there for weeks, would be further embarassed by different guests she encounters, based on the backstory of the relationship she had with them. Example of this is "not another teen movie" when the girl is masturbating under the covers and her little brother comes in, followed by her parents, singin happy birthday, then her grandparents, and finally " Father O'Malley" her priest. Now that may be off the reservation for some, but it is an example of one Embarassing, if not nude situation, that IS in fact heightened and builds because of the story and relationships, if only played for laughs. The girl does not masturbate for the entire movie, nor is she a great actress. The setup, simple, yet effective, is funny because she is mortified, and it keeps getting worse and worse. For those of us with an ENF fetish, throw in some nudity, and that particular movie and scene would be at the top of the list around here, and it lasted under two minutes. Take the girl to school and have her have to model nude for art class, then her iniation to get on the cheerleading squad is to take a shower in the boys locker room which she THINKS will be empty, where she gets caught and taken to the principal's office nude, where her parents are called, where everyone decideds her punishment is to stay nude...goes to show you can mix and match several seperate situations or take it into extended ENF IF, IF, If the storycan support it. And now you're just talking one character...which brings be to ZAPPED!, which by some is considered on of the greats of all time. Telekenisis...and clothes fly off. While you don't really know much about the women losing their clothes because the story revolves around Barney, you do know a little. The snobby girl is embarassed at the prom. Then all the girls lose their clothes at the prom. Prior to this a few girls lose clothes, usually those that have been mean to Barney. Again, you can take Barney to various locations, with various women of various occupations. And TADA! you have several ENF "moments, several ENf buildups, over and over, linked together by a male main character. Or the unifying theme could be the location or buisness itself. A school is a great example, whether using nudity as punishment which I think lacks creativity...You could have the art model, students and or teachers playing strip games, punishments, accidental exposures, strip searches, you name it. Whether we witnessed a "near miss" of accidental exposure, heard about a female student who chose the spanking over detention, made a bet with a fellow female student, took a dare, or gazed day after day at that hot teacher...everyone one of us had some adolescent fantasy about the girls at our high school. Now if you're gonna tell me that a movie or short video that takes those elements and shows us what would have been our wildest highschool dream, whether it happens to one girl or many, for 30 seconds or 30 minutes, that scenarios aren't important and are just an after thought I have to whole heartedly disagree. I don't want to know what her favorite color is or care about her teenage angst. I would like to know if she's the teacher, the virgin, the snob, or the nerd. I would like her to be somewhere between reluctant and mortified. I would like to know who is seeing her naked and a little bit about why she should care more than if she was naked in front of a stranger. And last on the list I would like her to not to have to be a great actress to overcome the fact that she LOOKS like a stripper. Tattoos, piercings, goth, and fake tits make me think stripper or trashy. And that makes me think they don't care who sees them. I think getting bogged down with how great an actress she is and can you get her naked in the first five minutes, keep her that way, camera angles and amount of nudity is up to the director, and is not paramount, nor the only way to do things . Short sweet and to the point and all I want is one good shot fully nude, cause I have freeze frame. . On to the next scene. If it "extends" and builds, then that is just icing on the cake. If she lost a bet and has to get naked after school, you don't show her going to every single class. This is not an episode of "24", shot in real time. I've even seen mainstream movies that show a scene, and then subtitle, "Four years later", and the main character is tada! at a different job, or has a different haircut! Wow! The wonders of cinema! And alas, poor Jenny gets ENF four years later in a different SCENARIO in front of a different bunch of people. Anyway, A few classmates teasing our poor student as she walks down the hall, and then the crowd that gathers for the actual event is all you need to build up the tension. If you want to extend it from there, and she's gonna remain nude, you're gonna have to put her in a SITUATION that is even more embarassing than stripping in front of a group of her classmates... A bigger group? A location that is more formal where her nudity is more shocking? In front of someone she has a more intimate relationship or a more formal relationship with? You decide. I simply don't agree you should be on the search for a young Meryl Streep with 44d's willing to be tied naked to a pole for two hours. You can't put this on the shoulders of the actress. It's on the shoulders of the writers, directors, and cameramen. You have the director asking a group of fans, MANY of which are amateur ENF writers, and some that are filmmakers what would make for great ENF, and you're telling me to devalue the storyline? The bottom line is that we're not being given veto rights in the casting process, nor any say in the editing process. These things, from production quality to amount of nudity an actress will do is something that I personally believe is a waste of time to give my two cents on, because i believe the movie maker has to do what they have to do, regardless of my opinion. However, when it comes to storylines, I do believe my two cents can always be worked into the budget, shown in a way that is very exciting to me regardless of the camera angle or if I get as much "exposure" as I'd hoped for, and is not dependent on a great actress or one with no scruples. As for everything else, as far as I'm concerned, you might as well be giving advice on what kind of film the video should be shot on.

anyway, kopema, I think you're right on about what is most important in the filmaking process for this ENF movie. Where we differ is you want to see a different movie than I do. So of course we're going to differ on the most important aspects of the process. I would like to see as many different sets of tits as possible. I'll agree, let's say you got the Katie Holmes' character from Dawson's creek, and made your ENF movie with her. Solid actress, and I feel like I "know" her enough to "feel her pain" as she strips. Seeing her over and over would not get old. And you wouldn't have to put her in a cheerleader outfit. And you are right. That would be a very difficult epic to make. My point is that even though your position is that "vignittes" have been done to death, I do not believe they have ever been done to the satisfaction of this group. When produced by playboy, they show too much too soon, and by lampoon, not enough. Mainstream and straight to video dance around the issue, or worse, use a great setup and buildup but waste it on CFNM. What I want to see is all or even one of these great "vignittes" done RIGHT for a change. So for what I would truly enjoy seeing, your criteria is not important. Anyway, i was not planning on turning this into a debate, but I would like to see a poll whether I'm in the minority of the type of ENF movie that everyone would like to see is. If I am, I'll shut up, as my criteria is in fact unimportant for the type of ENF movie you want to see, and I'll watch your epic when it comes out. If I'm not in the minority, then I think Lotfw hit the nail on the head with sharing some of our favorite scenarios/movie moments to pass on to the director is a good idea.

Good responses!
 

Well, thank youall for such a good response to this question. I figured that if people are going to look at making videos in this genre then they need to appeal to the fanbase. I will try to answer some of the questions I remember people asking:
Money- We would look to put about £50,000 ($70,000) into an initial 10 minute short film. Most of this would be done on set, as the quality is much better in these types of situiation if you are not outside. This would include money for actors, filming, editing, production etc...
I guess we would try to make a good profit on this. As a business it is important that we make something profitable as well as fun. I am interested in seeing the end result, but as a production company I will not be hands on with the actual filming. That will be down to my long time director, who is excellent at anything we give him.
Vidpro- I will PM you when i get five minutes and talk you through the various stages we went through getting the adult side off the ground. The problems we faced will probably fill a page!

In terms of ideas and screenplays it is always good to hear what people want. I think judging from the reaction to "babysitting without a net" it is a high quality, well thought out video that people like rather than an easy to believe scenario. I am happy to answer questions and talk ideas with people, although it is probably easier to PM with questions as it saves taking up room in Alex's threads.

I will keep everyone up to date with what we are doing, and may well get a few polls going when we have decided on some ideas. As I said before I think the first video would be a 5-10 minute short film that would be made availible free to OCC members.

Thanks for the support and ideas. Keep them coming and I will answer everything when i can.

Most of what I'd want to say has already been covered.

I think the key thing is that we believe that she didn't want to be seen nude and is embarassed about it. I know thats obvious, but it means:
-the situation can't be too unreal
-the acting has to be good
-she has to look like a "normal woman" - if she has fake tits or is shaved I think "stripper/porn actress/exhibitionist" and suspension of disbelief is pretty much impossible

As others have said the intensity of her embarasment/upset is important. Not enough will leave us bored. As for too much, well I want to feel turned on, not sympathetic with her or angry at her tormentors.

How explicit it is matters too. Personally I want full frontal nudity, but I don't want to see inside her as it makes suspension of disbelief hard and anyway genitals (male or female) look kind of ridiculous. If you want to appeal to those who want something more explicit then perhaps a shot that is too brief to be seen properly without hitting the pause button is the way to go.

A Woman's View
 

I just thought I would add a woman's point of view on this.
Personally I enjoy seeing movies where girls lose their clothes or are put in embarrassing situations, because I imagine myself in that situation and often find it sexy. The thought of losing my clothes for example in front of the guys I work with is one I would not like to happen - but it is a great fantasy I often have. Suddenly being naked in the street or in a public place is another turn on - BUT - I would draw the line where the girl is distressed or appears to be forced into a sexual situation where she is not happy.
Remember also that until the film gets made I am happy to take on ideas for photo shots for this board and you can see me at https://forum.oneclickchicks.com/showthread.php?t=27976

Ain't it cool?
 

Somebody mentioned a Zapped clone video called "Ain't it Cool" in an earlier post. I have never heard of that and in doing a little web searching was not finding much. Could somebody post some more information on where that video can be found? Is it good?

I think you're thinking of a movie called "Pretty Cool". I posted some videos of it here:

https://forum.oneclickchicks.com/showthread.php?t=20184

Fango

My $0.02 (and ideas):

1) For best "talent" you have to do it without sex. It will be much easier getting good "talent" if it is made clear that it is only nudity and no sex. And legal reasons too... once you get into the definitions of "pornography" and sex you're dealing with a whole different can of worms. Example - you can sell videos of "Nude Golf/Tennis/Yoga/Aerobics/Slumber Party/(name your activity)" on eBay, but you can't sell anything "hardcore".

B) A good place to get good, cheap, willing talent is colleges and universities. I've heard of good results for nude models by putting up ads in the art & dance departments. People in those areas tend to be a little more liberal with their bodies and their thoughts of nudity (plenty of nudity in art, nude painting/drawing classes, and dance costumes these days don't cover much at all so they're used to showing skin). Plus, being in college, they are always in need of money (especially later in the year but before spring break). They are also more likely to be genuine in their responses/"acting" than a professional actress/model because they haven't done it before.

3) Whomever mentioned that you have to cover all the possibilities in the release is right on. I think if you let them know there will be nudity at some point but surprise them before they expect it, then you can get a genuine response. Better yet, go through all of the possibilities and ask them if there's any of them that they are uncomfortable with. That way you know what to avoid with each one individually and yet they don't know exactly which ones they will have to do (but have given implied consent because they didn't say they were uncomfortable with those).

4) A good resource is Abbywinters.com - she has done a masterful job of using young, natural models (most are 18-23) that are "real girls" and not professional models/actresses. She also has several "shoots" where the models strip each other in public. Maybe contact her for ideas on how she does it... and offer in return a link to her website from yours.

5) I'd be careful about releasing some vids to the public for free as downloads. When people do that they end up on P2P networks and spread for free - then everyone has it and no one wants to buy it. The technology is available where people can view "trailers" on a website without being able to download it.

6) Ideas:
- the old reliable "Strip Poker" party
- the "sorority initiation"
- the rival girls trying to get each other back (pantsing, dropping towels, anything to get guys to see the other girl naked)

Hope this helps.

Thanks for all the comments and ideas. This seems to be moving forward a little now, so as long as Alex is okay with this thread please keep opinions coming. I will let you all know what stage we are at and when you can expect to see something as we get the details together. In the mean time all these posts really help to get a feel of what people want, and we appreciate that!

I agree with most of what's been said here, but I'd like to put a cautionary case about having too much reality. The one kind of ENF clip that's pretty easy to get hold of here is the "spring break" type thing with some bird having her bikini top pulled off after chugging one too many beers.

I think the best vids have some artifice about them. The girl should be acting embarrassed and awkward and the situation should build this embarrassment and awkwardness until the final denouement, as it were. If I were making such a film, I'd look to SirSeph's work for inspiration (the towel drop clip in the video forum is an absolute classic) and the stories and cartoons of Morph and Biker on Yahoo groups (I have the addys if you don't already). I agree with the comments about "everyday" clothing (although I'd put in a special plea for a business suit, or some kind of uniform). The lingerie should be sexy, without being a full-on leather basque, or some kind of frou-frou sub-Dynasty nightmare.

I remember reading a couple of stories on the old Superheroine Undone site. One was called Brenda's Button Dress, in which a woman attends a party on a hot, sticky day in a dress held together by many buttons, but sewn up accidentally with water soluble thread by her tailor. The other story had a similar theme, where a pushy reporter attends a major gathering with a suit that has been put together with the same thread. In both stories, the gradual disintegration of the garments, and the desperate attempts of the women in them to hold them together was completely delicious - and of course there was a final exposure before a crowd of onlookers followed by a dash away tottering on heels, which by this point was the only thing they had left on.

Anyhoo, good luck with it. Any ENF film is a good ENF film from my point of view :D

My Idea
 

For one example, you could maybe use some of the Jenny (and other similar) stories and make a movie out of that.
But then I don't know about the copyright on those stories..
Anyways, just an idea, I bet you could come up with something better :p

Ignorant of how movies are really made, this thread has been more of an education than I expected. I always wondered why no one just offered two to three college drama majors some cash to play strip poker, with a generous bonus for the winner. The other costs involved explains quite a bit.

I would suggest a reality approach like I mentioned above for a loose feel, and the real chance of catching a first time nude on film. If you are going for the heavily scripted approach, I would like to see people exposed because of blackmail, and stripping them in front of people the character knows always sweetens the plot.

Speaking as an average joe who has been a member for quite some time but rarely posted, this idea intrigues me. If it was done well, and you could suspend my disbelief, I would probably spend far too much of my hard earned money for films like this.

For my vote, I agree with Kopema about the 'realism' of the situation not being the most important factor. In fact, I love those scenes where something supernatural, malicious trickery or a (series of) wildly implausible accident(s) is responsible for the stripping of our heroine.

I disagree that seeing the same girl losing her clothes over and again would get boring; on the contrary, I think this adds greatly to the 'E' in the ENF - especially when no one else is having this problem and the character conveys a feeling of true embarassment and mortification (along the lines of 'why is this always happening to me?')

Of course, this requires a willing suspension of disbelief - but why is that a problem? The genre is after all implicitly one of fantasy/comedy dissimilar to any other type of erotica. The archytype for this is the 'girl who can't keep her clothes on' through no fault of her own, as for example Jane, Carrie, Jenny, Paula Schultz etc...

Finally, I think the trick is to keep it light-hearted and avoid mean-spiritedness (another reason to steer clear of realism in these scenarios), while at the same time not being afraid to the let the scene linger on the nudity and moment of the exposure. After all many of the best scenes of this type (as in Zapped, Jane etc...) are let down ultimately by being too brief or non-nude so as not to alientate the mainstream audience - a problem we don't have here. Extending the embarassment by compelling the girl (through some suitably contrived set of reasons) to stick around while still naked or semi-naked would achieve this - and would be especially funny/ erotic if everyone is vocally trying to make light of her situation or pretending to ignore it while she cringes in embarassment. In that context, it may then make sense to have a superficial main plot to the story (separate from the ENF component) that allows the action to move on and to create/ contrive situations in which the scenarios can be set up that lead to the ENF moments. This may be why the best (in my opinion) examples of this in film to date are Jane (war time/ spying main plot), Paula Scultz (spying), Zapped (sci fi/ fantasy)

One alternative to the above I would love to see would be to do a filmed version of the Cronenburg School type stories, focusing again on the stripping and embarassment. Again though, the attempt shouldn't be made to make it seem realistic/ plausible - it would fall flat on its face and be embarassing for the wrong reasons. It is a fantasy, and should be played as one.

Just my thoughts...