What happens when a voyeur gets caught?
 

From time to time, one comes across some photos wherein the voyeur gets caught or one hears of voyeurs getting into trouble. The fear of getting caught (and the relief when getting away with it if caught) is part of what gives the buzz of voyeuring. Therefor, I love to see pictures or movies of voyeurs getting caught, subjects noticing the voyeur and their reaction, boyfriends' or bystanders' reactions, etc. I would also love to hear your stories of situations wherein you (almost) got caught.

As someone who may lead the world in “got caught” moments, I will share some thoughts and stories. Most of the time, I shoot video that requires greater proximity and continued periods of focus on the subject. It is not quite "voyeur" in style, but maybe my experiences will help others doing guerrilla photography.

Often, I shoot “open camera” although occasionally from a “blind” or “out of a bag” constructed for the purpose. I have shot Blacks, Haulover, South Beach, Keywest, Cap d'agde, Rio, Jamaica, Wrecks (sort of), French Riviera, Nice, and other European beaches.

Here are my most common situations for beach photography:

1. “The cover up”: Subjects notices that a video camera is pointed and covers in some fashion. Usually, with a disapproving look or a “look away” action. Rarely, does any more come of this type of encounter, but it is best to move on and not press your luck.

2. “I don’t care”: Subjects don’t want to participate by posing, but do not mind being photographed respectfully. You will know that you are caught, but the subject will act like they didn't see you.

The best approach is to ask once you are noticed, and be ready for question about what your intended usage is. I state that my intention is to publish a video for sale of the beach or the event. Stating “just for personal use” rarely goes over well in that the subject interprets this as “I’m a perv.”

3. “Make me famous”: just shooting “open camera” attracts lots of attention especially at beaches that do not have that custom. This may be bad, or very good. Watch for subjects that are excited by the prospect of being asked to participate. Usually, they will not approach you, but if you ask, they will pose until you run out of tape or hard drive space.

4. “Protectors of the beach”: Cap d'agde, Haulover and Blacks have nudist groups that act as de facto regulators of the beaches. These groups can be very aggressive toward photographers. The best approach is complete honesty and transparency. I state that I will shoot only with permission and be respectful. I state that the subjects have the right to be photographed with their consent, and that the presentation of the beach is important to the acceptance of nudity. If pushed any more, I assert my rights are equal to any other individuals.

This is the most dangerous situation in my opinion. If it gets out of hand, I ask that a lifeguard or the police be called to mediate the dispute (the photographer is within his legal rights if shooting open camera but not if shooting from the bag). I prefer not to get in the argument of legal rights and ”public beach” unless the person you are speaking to is rational and listening.

Be prepared to have to defend yourself. Stand up and get your gear in order if a confrontation ensues.

5. “The boyfriend protecting”: Compliment the girlfriend and ask for permission to do more photographs. Place the boyfriend in control by asking him to ask his gf is she wishes to be photographed. Be polite.
Oddly, I have found that this situation works itself out without problems to the photographer. The boyfriend needs to show that he cares, but once he is in control, defers to the gf and doesn’t wish to fight.

6. “I’ll do a few poses”: Many times subject will agree to pose with restrictions or conditions. While this is tempting for the photographer, I will not agree. The reason is that the conditions seem to evolve in the subjects mind over time. You may be called to answer for requesting a wrong pose or publishing a picture the subject determines was not part of the arrangement. I take the approach “it is my picture” once you agree to pose. I have lost a few subjects in this approach, but saved lots of grief and disagreements the next time I shoot the same beach.

Some stories:

At South Beach, a group of 5 girls were setting up near 6th street (busy) and all 5 were knock outs. Before they took anything off, I approached and asked permission to video them undressing and going to the water. They were surprised by my boldness but agreed. A group of beach regulars saw me setting up my camera and told me that photography was not allowed in that portion of the beach. Two of the guys were particularly aggressive. I asked the beach regulars to monitor my shoot of the girls to make certain I was not violating any beach etiquette in my photography. I asked that a lifeguard be called to monitor if they were unwilling. Afterwards, the beach regulars and I became friends and they assisted me with “etiquette questions.”

At Cap d'agde, the police were called and started following me on the beach. I determined that attempting to get away or cover up was useless, so I take the camera from the backpack, and started filming in open view. The police stepped up and “detained” me by removing me from the beach. I pointed out that I was not trying to hide my activities and was not violating any laws. After an hour of watching my tapes, the police determined that I was not shooting any underage person and drove me back to the beach. Life guards were alerted that I was OK and it solved many of my problems in that difficult area for photography. However, the trip to the station was unpleasant due to my inability to speak French and the loss of beach time.

At Rio Ipanema Beach, I had just arrived and was shooting the harbor area. A girl saw me with a camera and sent her boyfriend to make a scene. For once, I was not actually shooting anyone. The boyfriend took a swing and a scuffle ensured. Welcome to Brazil! I became known to everyone at the beach and the police all in one moment. But, afterward, I had a constant stream of girls that would ask if I wished to take their picture. Most had swimsuits on, but we would go to be water and they would take off their tops for the pictures. One of the best days of my photography life. The rest of the trip I kept hoping I could find someone to cause a scene at the beach so that I could repeat the first day’s experience. Sometimes, being known as a photographer is a good thing.

Sorry I don’t have more photos but I shot mainly video.

we have a thread here already for pics of girls giving beach voys the finger. I have quite a few of these, a few of which I'm reposting below. Since i don't recall the name of the thread, I can't post the link here. Maybe someone else knows.

Anyway, but since Wildasu has now decided to grace us with his presence in this thread, I suppose that this now is THE thread for this topic! I appreciate Wildasu's recollections and they are a constant reminder of the risks and rewards inherent in doing this type of photography. Also, it got me thinking about some of my own unpleasant encounters.

Portland nighttime WNBR: A guy told me he didn't like my face, didn't like my flash, and wanted me to get my butt out of there. That was a pretty "up close and personal" confrontation. Yes, he was in my face, and he didn't like what he saw. I don't know. Others have told me I'm rather cute...:)

beach photography: One thing I learned when trying to do beach photography is that if you try to disguise your camera, it can backfire on you. People seem to especially not like it if you are devious like this. Wildasu alluded to being out in the open about things. In retrospect, it might have saved me some embarrassment if I had followed that advice. On one beach trip, for example, I hid my camera inside a little box with a hole in it. I was discovered, and the guy that discovered it held up the little box for all to see and made a mockery of me. I was out of there in a flash. This happened one other time, and now I look back on this with a lot of regret. People notice you if you are fiddling with stuff, even if its not a camera. If you are acting in a way that suggests you are taking pics, it doesn't matter if an actual camera is not really visible. They will become suspicious, and then proud of themselves that they caught you! They will want to tell everyone else!

be careful at events: Some events have photographers but they are mostly all friends of the people that are naked. I got in this situation once where everyone, unbeknownst to me, pretty much knew everyone else. I was an outsider but didn't realize it, thinking the event was more public and open than it really was. and so I brazenly got out my camera and started taking pics with a big telephoto. Pretty soon, an older gentleman with a steely, victorian manner approached me and began insulting me. He said everyone else were friends of the nudes. His manner was to haul me "to the principles office" so to speak, the principal being the woman organizing the event. The pics had to go. A witness was selected from the crowd to watch me delete my photos. Everyone was watching. It was gruesome.

At another event, I happened upon a beautiful topless girl at one point, and began shooting. And then I just kept on shooting and shooting and shooting....overdoing it really. I lost track of time. When I finally stopped and began to walk away, I looked back and out of the corner of my eye, saw a woman approach the topless girl and point to me. My pace quickened and i knew it was time for me to get the heck out of there. But the girl put on her shirt and followed me. She approached me and asked that I delete every pic. There were hundreds! - I was embarrassed to have her see just how many pics I had taken. I apologized sincerely. She was pretty nice about it though which made this not a really bad experience. She could have been really b*tchy, but I still felt really bad afterwords.

At Fremont, I have several pics of girls either pointing at me or giving me the finger. I would post them, but I usually delete these. There are also some sequences from OCF showing guys and girls giving me the "Get the heck out of here" looks.

Anyway, I have heard of far worse stories. These really aren't that bad, in part because I rarely do beach photography. That is were you run into the most problems. Also, I don't shoot overseas (brazil!) where it seems people can get even angrier.

I do usually though get mocked at least once by someone at the Portland nighttime WNBR. I suspect it will happen again tonight, and I am prepared.

Klondike

here's the other thread, BTW - its chock full of pics of pissed off girls on the beach and elsewhere.

https://forum.oneclickchicks.com/show...=voyeur+caught

I have to tell you, though, that seeing this thread and the pics again brings up a lot of bad memories. So did writing about my experiences. Sometimes I am in the mood to see pics like this, but not always. I guess today it is bumming me out. :) At other times, i can laugh (if its the other guy getting caught, not me). Anyway, i contributed a number of my own pics to the thread I linked to. But more often than not these days i delete these kind of pics so that I am not being reminded that I can be somewhat of a perv at times....

Klondike

When I got caught, the police took me in (only identified and interrogated me). Thankfully I didn't have the camera with me.

Why did the police take you in if you weren't taking pictures? :confused:

There are a few videos on the web of people getting caught while spying
Kinda creepy sometimes
But some of nice

I'm curious what event this was. Please send me a PM if you don't want to publicize it here.

Man, if I saw her coming towards me, I would have just booked it. LOL! :p

Fango

Some Things I've Seen
 

At the nude beach, I have met guys who pride themselves on grabbing expensive cameras, cell phones, and other photography equipment from snappers who offend them, and then see how far they can throw it all into the ocean. Those incidents usually end with the photog heading for home ASAP not to be seen again.

I have seen several good fights between photogs, whom the other guys claimed were pestering their wives or girlfriends by hovering around them, taking nude shots. It took the police to rescue the photogs, who were lucky that most beach regulars keep the direct local police numbers in their mobiles and immediately called for help.

And the regulars keep watch and text each other when a, usually fully dressed, snapper is around. Minimally, they take his picture for future reference, but may also send some big guys to encircle and "talk" to him.

I don't know how we seem to always get onto this topic around WNBR time, but if you do one of the rides you have to know your picture is going to wind up online for all the world to see. I was delighted to see one of my exes pictured riding in London yesterday, I know she was fully aware that there would be thousands of cameras taking her picture, and she actually likes that because she has always looked great only in her skin. On the other hand, there are a lot of people who go to the nude beach who don't expect anyone to take their picture, and see things very differently.

People pointing cameras at you on a nude beach can be annoying. If you have ever experienced the true "voyeurs," who get a true kick out of possessing intimate pictures of strangers, that gets creepy. These guys wait in the parking lot to "record your whole day." They are organized and when you get out of your car you hear several other doorlocks pop open. When you're undressing you look around and several are taking your picture from different angles using hand signals to communicate. Then you come back to your blanket to find one camped nearby talking on his phone, but really it becomes obvious he wants particular closeups. It's creepy. When this happens to women they cover up, leave and never go back to that beach again.

On the other hand, I've had dozens of also nude women take my picture on their cell phones without asking, I heard one even asked her boyfriend to take it, and I never expected the pictures to go very far. Once I fell asleep to wake up to a fully nude woman circling me taking pictures from all angles. She was reasonably attractive, but it was still a bit weird, and I can understand why women would object if the tables were turned.

Sometimes there are straight guys, who are beach regulars, who pull their cameras out to take random pictures. I always shoot them a disapproving glance and they stop taking them in my direction. One guy was taking my picture when it was getting dark, and his flash went off. Without me saying a thing he apologized, and showed me that he was erasing the picture.

Going to the nude beach is an enjoyable experience, and I don't want to ruin it for myself, or discourage women from going there. I know this is sacrilegious on this website, but I leave my camera at home when I go to the nude beach. (like Klondike left his at home for his local Portland WNBR) There are plenty of women who don't mind having their nude pictures taken and distributed, and then there are those who only want to be seen nude in person for some very good reasons.

first paragraph - yes, creepy indeed. I was not aware of the extent of this.

second paragraph - Its not sacrilegious at OCC to leave your camera at home. At least, I HOPE it is not sacrilegious!
I mean, OCC is first and foremost a site for surfers, not photographers. I hardly ever take my camera to the nude beach. Too much sand...:) But yeah, as an extension of this - I don't want to be the only one taking pics wherever I am. I am never comfortable with that. With campus events it has been that way many times, but that could be why I am taking fewer pics now at these events. Otherwise, the more photogs the better....

There are a lot of rewards to capturing the girls that don't want to be captured. They get heavily faved at Flickr and thanked here. But for me, its always a mixed feelings type of thing.

Klondike

I wonder how many times people have run into this: (its not a voyeur photography story, but voyeur related)

At Blacks Beach about 15 years ago, I went once after not having gone for many years. I knew the beach was changing not for the better, but I still hoped I would have a good day. I didn't....:(

What happened on that day was that most of the regulars and women were crowded into this one small area. Elsewhere the beach, which is vast, was very lightly populated, and so I didn't see much point in putting my blanket anywhere else but in the crowded area. But soon after I put down, I noticed that a young, muscular dude was standing smack dab in the middle of this area watching everything that was going on around him. He had his arms folded and he was scanning the crowd continuously. Immediately surrounding him were most of the naked women to be found on the beach that day, and so I figured that his job was to protect them. So.......what did that mean for me? Well, about 5 minutes after I put down, he grabbed a beach umbrella, walked towards me, and stuck it in the sand right in front of my blanket to block my view of the girls. He made sure he angled it just right so that my view would be completely blocked. And then I saw him do this repeatedly with other voys that put down in that area after me. He must have brought a lot of umbrellas to the beach today.

I have never observed this anywhere before or since on any nude beach. it was just sad. I left the beach wondering what the world was coming to. And I have never been back to Black's....

Klondike

It's that kind of aggressive, antisocial behavior that really aggravates me when I go to the beach. I've seen a number of issues with this kind of antisocial behavior, mostly at Gunnison and the late Lighthouse Beach.

The group(s) of people who think they "own" the beach and impose their opinions on visitors and intrude on your enjoyment. It doesn't matter if these individuals are right or wrong, they are emboldened by having the "mob mentality" behind them to push their agendas. Usually they are a bunch of older guys. And there is a skinny dipping creek in near upstate NY that if you are not "in" with the regulars, they will make you feel very unwelcome- even though it is an open wilderness area that anyone may visit.

Putting up windscreens too close to the water, so others who come with a chair and/or towel have their view of the water and beach blocked. Or getting walled in by windscreens, tents, etc. period. And I'm not just talking about checking out some nice ladies. I like to see the beach and the water- that is why I'm outdoors!

My least favorite regulars are the older guys who cozy up to all the cute naked girls visiting for the first time, and let them know they are there to protect them from all the voys. This is about as low as it gets, because you know they are there to sneak peeks and are probably among the biggest voys themselves. But no - of course its the OTHER guys who are the voys, not them! I've even seen guys hand out cards to the girls. The cards are supposedly for the girls to hand to voys that are bothering them, and say things like "its not polite to stare" or something like that. Again, this is so devious, because you know this is just another ploy to get close up views and conversation with the cute girls.

Also, its really biased to adopt an OBVIOUS policy of favoring female newbies over male newbies.
I know, you would often like to pump the F:M ratio a bit. I can relate to that. But in any public space it is probably legally discriminatory for one to try and put this into practice. I could probably take you to court if you don't allow me the same rights that you do a woman. So obstructing my view with an umbrella while you cozy up to and protect the women might be a violation of my rights to occupy a public space. I also know that sometimes nude beach regulars will attempt to close off or semi close off an area of the beach to keep the voys out. Again - legally?
What ownership rights do you have based solely on the fact that you go to the beach a lot more often than someone else? its still a public beach.

Klondike

i suspect he was just peeping or looking...depending on where, he could've been arrested if he was peering into someone's window even if he wasn't taking pics or video.

i agree...and i bet it is more then just to get close and stare, but inside them too...:D...so from your experience, did you ever see any of these older guys pick up any young gal at the beaches you went to and scored!!

It's stuff like these shenanigans at Sandy Hook/ Gunnison that burn me up and probably what Klondike was talking about (reposted pic)

no, but I don't pay all that much attention to that...:) Frankly, though - most of these guys are more nudists than swingers, at least at my beach.

No, they just welcome the girls, ask them "is this your first time?", "where are you from?" etc. I never get approached and asked that....

Anyway, my biggest issue right now at my own beach is clothed users, male and female. They seem to be locals.
There was a group of 10 the other day right smack in the middle of the beach. Not so much as one T-shirt came off. I want to have the power to enforce nudity! Heh, Heh....:) I guess frankly I would rather see the regulars doing whatever they do with impunity than see hoards of clothed users. At least the former are naked...

Klondike

It was a music festival, and the girls had the habit to leave the shower cabin doors open, I was just standing nearby "casually", but one of them complained to the police. When I noticed I'd been soptted I tried to leave, but it was too late. I was interrogated, identified and they took my entrance pass.

I'll reply from the other side. Although my wife and I are exhibitionists first and foremost we don't like people taking photos of us without our consent. We've caught people a few times and it's always bothersome.

More often than not I'll simply ask the person to delete any pictures they've taken of us. I do it very level-headed and calm and this approach works 80% of the time. If you don't make a scene then they can continue on with their activities.

If the person refuses or is trying to be evasive I tell them I'm a camera buff, also enjoy voyeur photography and want to check their set-up out. This disarms them and then I remove the memory card and "accidentally" snap it in half or drop it in the ocean. Whoops.

My final tact is to grab my iPhone and begin taking pictures of them telling them, loudly, that I will post their pictures all over the internet so everyone can laugh at how ugly, out of shape, and small their penis' are. This generally creates a scene and since 99% of people on a nude beach don't want to be taped the voyeur is confronted with a mob and generally leaves in shame. On one occasion the mob grabbed the camera and destroyed it.

One gentleman called the police when another guy I was with, who helped me confront the voyeur, destroyed the memory card. When the police officer arrived I simply said that the individual was taking photos of underage children and it was not anyone's intent to destroy evidence. The officer could ask anyone else on the beach whether the guy was taking nude pictures of children (knowing that the mob would go against the voyeur) and the guy spit on me. He was then arrested for simple assault and we've never seen him again (not sure if he was charged with anything else. Since it was witnessed by the officer I didn't have to press charges).

Yes, it's a bit of a double-standard as I enjoy nude beach pictures as much as everyone else. If you're going to take photos, which I respect you have a legal right to do, then be open about it so folks who want to cover up (or opt out) can. The reality is if some people are "caught" in a photograph like this then their personal and professional lives could be put in jeopardy.

If you conceal and are caught the reactions are much more visceral. I've seen some ugly confrontations on beaches from folks who don't try the level-headed route (ironically one of the worst confrontations I every witnessed was from the boyfriend of a lady that's been posted on here, and other sites, many many times). It's not fun for anyone and ends up ruining the beach experience. I know we always question whether we want to go back after a day like that.

more from this set :)

Interesting subject.. I once saw a guy in Greece sat on a beach using a mirror in a fake telephone lens which allowed him to take photographs at a right angle to the camera. The thing was it was so obvious everyone could see this and abused him for it.. he was humiliated.. Later in the evening he was refused entry to a bar as he was recognised as 'that pervert from the beach'...

You lied to police and falsely accused someone of taking pictures of underage children?

do you do this often?

Klondike

I am all in favor of trying to resolve conflicts in a peaceful manner.

However, you are committing criminal acts in destroying photographers property, providing false information to police (on felony matters no less), and inciting mob actions against a legal activity. You are asking for an escalation of violence that will impact all users of the beach and will end up ruining the beach experience for everyone.

I would ask you to consider that photographers have a legal right to photograph on the beach with or without your consent. Your threatening behavior is not good for anyone on the beach, and is unlikely to resolve anything. Your getting spit on is hardly surprising (but still wrong).

I don’t consider myself a perv and would not be intimidated by your silly iPhone tricks. I am not sure why you feel you have a more important right to be at the beach than mine. But, it doesn’t fly with me.

Please think this issue through and decide if the confrontation is really what you desire when you go to the beach. Respecting the legal rights of everyone is a better policy.

the only safe way to get pics is a hidden cam or some small device that you can get at the spy store....ones that are discreet.

There were several children on the beach. It was a plausible accusation that I left up to an impartial person to decide the validity of.

If the individual was doing nothing illegal than they shouldn't have been trying to hide their actions.

I completely respect photographer's legal rights and I mentioned that in my original post, which is why I always nicely ask them to delete photos of us before any other action. My hope in trying this approach first is any photographer will respect our request to not be photographed and our need for discression in exposing our nude activities. I'm very much a conflict avoidance person and always attempt a level headed approach before escalating.

I've destroyed exactly one memory card when I felt the photographer's actions would adversely affect my and my wife's personal life. And I'd do it again if the situation were to ever repeat itself.

I've spent enough time at nude beaches to say that you'd much rather me confronting you than 90% of the other people I've seen confront voyeur photographers.

If everyone is so confident in their impunity for taking voyeur photos on nude beaches, then why conceal the activity? Is it because you fear confrontation or know that there's a moral issue with what you're doing?

Let me flip this on its head and ask, if you were confronted by someone who caught you taking photos of them, and they asked you to delete those photos -- what would your reaction be? Would you comply, fight or flight?

I knew I'd get flamed for my reply to this thread. Just trying to provide a counter-point.

So your friend destroyed that guy's property (was said photographer even breaking the law?), you then claimed he was a p********* (or for our USA members p********) and yet you're surprised when he assaults you? Words fail me...

Yet your friend had destroyed any potential evidence.

Maybe if there weren't hypocrites like yourself throwing your weight around he wouldn't have felt the need to do try and hide what he was doing?

no surprise
 

I wondered how long it would take for this to blow up:rolleyes:
Defending the indefensible is never going to work,illicit photography whether actually illegal or not will by its nature be emotive. Voyeuristic photography by definition is invasive and any invasive action is bound to have a consequence at some point.

Reread what I wrote. I never said I was surprised and I never pressed charges. He assaulted me, in front of a police officer (who he called) and the police officer chose to have the State take legal action. Was I completely right in my actions? Nope, not trying to say I was. Just trying to protect my, and my wife's likeness, from being used against us at some point. I don't expect you to respect my position, I'm simply providing context and clarity to how I, as someone on the other side of the lens, feels.

I think friend is a bit strong. He was another guy on the beach who was sick of this guy taking photos when asked, by multiple people, to stop. The camera in question was hidden in a cookie box.

You're reading what you want to read but not what I posted.

If my wife and I see someone walking down the beach with a camera fully exposed and we don't want to be photographed we cover ourselves. Simple as that. No words are ever exchanged, nor do they need to be. They have just as much of a right to be there, with a camera, as we do.

It's the folks who hide the cameras that creates the animosity and the uncomfortable environment.

I understand I'm in the minority within this board on this position, but take a logical step back. If you survey the average nude beach goer whether or not voyeur photography should be allowed - how many people do you think would say they'd prefer if it was banned? Certainly greater than the majority. I don't advocate for anyone but myself and my wife. If I see someone taking voyeur photos I don't take it upon myself to police the beach, unless I see the camera being pointed at us, at which point - as I mentioned - I ask very politely to erase the photos they've taken of us. The majority of the time the individual complies and we both go on our way.

ha ha!!
 

NoPubes,you have been trodding in the HORNET'S NEST.....I would give in if I were you,....on OCC you can never expect to be awarded for your unacceptable behavior...ha!!...I rest my case...

some things I dug up :)
 

First of all, regarding a photographers rights to take photos on public property, I found this link helpful:

hxxp://petapixel.com/assets/store/photographersrights.txt

see especially 4, 8 and 10.

The "reasonable expectation of privacy" issue comes up in #4 and I can't say as I really know how to apply this legally. I know that it comes up a lot in voyeur type cases. My interpretation would be that everyone in public has the right to at least some personal space upon which you cannot intrude. I.e holding your camera three inches away from a girls pubes at the WNBR would be a violation of their personal space and an invasion of privacy. Just IMHO, but this seems the most likely interpretation of "reasonable expectation of privacy". The nudity issue would not seem to figure in if you are voluntarily nude. But this would apply to all forms of photography in public. Getting in a homeless persons face, for example, and snapping away from 6 inches away - not advisable.

Photographers opinions on obtaining permission to shoot in public vary. But it is not legally necessary. Also, if you are asked by a potential subject not to take their pic, you should honor their request as a moral courtesy. But again, it isn't legally required that you do so.

No's 8 and 10 address acts of aggression against photographers. Read these carefully. They are pretty self explanatory.

Now regarding nude beach photography, I bet that some would say that because you are nude, you have a greater "expectation of privacy" than if you were clothed. This would seem to be a key issue on a nude beach. And so for help in dissecting this matter, I turned to this article:


hxxp://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/07/visitors_of_nj_nude_beach_face.html


The key points from this are as follows:

1) According to a spokesperson for the friends of Gunnison Beach, you have "no expectation of privacy" regarding photography there. Remember, this is not coming from the mouth of an OCC member or voy photographer, but from the mouth of a Gunnison regular and a woman to boot. So there goes my notion above, or rather some people's notion, that one might hope to have a greater expectation of privacy if one is nude. It just doesn't seem to be so, however.

2) Park Rangers at Gunnison, who in recent times have taken greater control over the beach "do not want beach regulars taking the law into their own hands" when it comes to confronting photographers. We have stated here that to do so may be breaking the law, and violates #8 and #10 above.

3) Concerning what action you might consider taking if you are a beach regular wanting to prohibit pic taking - there are many examples listed. Most focus on ways you might embarrass a voy with a camera. I.e recall nopubes iPhone solution. But NOWHERE in the article is their any hint that you can legally take things any further than that.
Recall again rules #8 and #10 above. This includes making threats, detainment, mob action, assault, destruction of personal property, removal from the beach, etc. Hell, according to #10, you may not even legally force an individual to delete his pics!

OK, so thats the scoop as far as I can tell.

Anyway, now to turn to the defense of the other side of the argument for a moment. We all want these beaches to remain viable and popular, and so where the legal arguments leave off, some moral ones should kick in. For example, if someone were to come up to me and ask me to delete pics I had taken on a nude beach, i would do so without question. PLEASE HONOR THESE REQUESTS! That is unless that person is being unusually aggressive, obnoxious, insulting or whatever.

Otherwise, I have state personally that I don't like taking pics on nude beaches, and that it can weigh on my conscience at times. A big part of that is the expectation of privacy issue, which, notwithstanding the words of a Gunnison Beach regular, is a moral issue somewhat divorced from the legal one. Professional photographers generally will not take your photo if you request specifically that they do not. It is a moral courtesy. And does this also extend to subjects who you have good reason to suspect DO NOT want their picture taken but are not telling you outright? I think to a fair degree, it should. But again, this is a moral question, not a legal one. So, in conclusion, legally things are quite clear. Morally, not so much so. But the main reason I am putting all of this out there is to address the issue of confrontations with photographers. And here, their legal right to take pics is clearly stated as long as they honor ones "reasonable expectation of privacy" which I interpret to mean you cannot be right in that persons face. Recall again that at Gunnison you have "no expectation of privacy" so I doubt that one could argue in favor of a stricter interpretation of this phrase. You are voluntarily nude in public after all, and are voluntarily naked within sight of others. And finally - once again, you cannot legally threaten, mob, assault, detain, remove from the beach, or destroy the personal property of said photographer.

Klondike

I checked some more and my interpretation doesn't seem to be correct here. "Reasonable expectation of privacy" in public applies only to public places like a public restroom, phone booth, etc. Out in the open, in other words, there is no reasonable expectation of privacy at all. Nude beaches would be included here. So what I said about not taking photos from three inches away then would the not come under the scope of this phrase at all. Maybe in that case it falls under the category of "invasion of privacy". I don't know, but that seems reasonable..

In any case, this only makes the legality of taking pics on a nude beach all the more clear. "Reasonable expectation of privacy" only seems to apply to things like public restrooms, phone booths, etc which are public areas intended for private use. So once again, on a nude beach, you have no expectation of privacy. Period.

Klondike

continuing....
 

EDIT: I got myself in trouble here because I didn't read the entire sentence in #4. The entire sentence reads:

4. Anyone can be photographed without consent when they are in a public place unless there is a reasonable expectation of privacy. e.g. private homes, restrooms, dressing rooms, medical facilities, and phone booths.


I didn't read the part in bold because it was on another line....:)

and finally, BTW - these rules apply in the US. I do not know what the rules are in other countries...

KLondike

Firstly this is the only reply I'm going to post on this subject as I know from experience someone will run to the mods claiming "they're flaming me!" and suddenly half the thread disappears.

I read your post and you sounded quite foolish. Perhaps you should have made you feelings about the incident clear in the original post? The fact is this guy was taking photos on a UK beach I really can't see what laws he would be breaking. As for protecting you and your wife's likeness, is that really worth worrying about, I mean what job must you do if either of you are going to get in trouble for visiting a naturist beach? You say you enjoy beach voyeur photos yet don't like the idea of appearing in such photos, sorry but that makes you a hypocrite.

But one genuinely offensive bit was that you falsely accused him of being a p*********. Sorry but no matter what you say to justify yourself that is vile and inexcusable.

Sorry I don’t have more photos but I shot mainly video.[/QUOTE]

Have you posted the videos on this forum? we would love to see them!

Here goes!

I just wondered - anyone ever had any insight as to how the 'legends' of beach voyeur do/did it?

I mean the guys who have been abou tas long as the web, or I can remember - like the Sandfly off voyeurweb (now got his own site I think).

Seems like thye've been getting away with it for deades (well, at least since mid-nineties!) :)

Is it equipment, d'you think? Or successful practiced technique? Lov eto be a fly on the wall on a beach with them for a day.