addition to previous post:

As for the guys who keep pestering people at the start and finish: There are and always will be idiots out there.

In the meantime, here's some Toronto!

Of course I posted it. And yes I do recognise the quote.

In the same way I have responded to 27cows on my blog page, I will comment again here. I have no issue with 'photographers' persae. Yes the rides need to be documented and I do of course realise that this is NOT a naturist event. I object to the pushy leering photographers looking for photos PURELY to get crotch and tit images for websites like this. Yes some of them are on here. And some of them will be elsewhere and some of them will no doubt be kept for private use. I have seen lots of really good WNBR images both here and elsewhere that are a good overall view of the ride. I object to the obvious up close and personal harrassment of (obviously) young, slim, female participants who's images have clearly been taken for personal gratification. Some of that harrassment has been documented in other photographs. I posted an image with permission on my blog which included the red head on the London ride who literally had a guy kneeing at her feet with a camera pointed directly upwards up the length of her body as she pushed her way from the start line to set off. Is this acceptable???? Is this documenting the ride?

Why am I in over my head? I am taking this from a different perspective and from the comments I have received from riders, photographers and stewards. I am also commenting from the perspective of being a female who felt unsafe going on the ride. Why does that put me over my head. Because there is one of me and about 500 of you?

My stance (again!)
 

It seems to me that everyone here is of the opinion that the girls are clearly aware of where their images are being put. They are not. And you cannot deny that this thread sits along side clearly more pornographic subjects. That in itself gives this thread a bad connotation.

Your website has of course (because I have blogged about it) been picked up on by various people both connected and not connected to the rides. Yay for publicity for all of us I guess. But I was struck and strangely surprised by the number of horrified comments I received from women who had no idea where their images were ending up. I know that at least a few of them went on here to check they weren't included. At least one of them was and I believe it's been dealt with.

Now, yes maybe they are naive. I wasn't shocked or surprised to find out. And perhaps they shouldn't have been. But they were. And it does suggest that participants are very innocent about their reasons for attending the rides. I am sure many of the people attending are not naturists and are using it as an excuse for getting their kit off in public. Fair dues to them, have fun. And they probably don't care where their naked selves are ending up online. But for some people on this ride it's been a very brave thing to do by getting on a bike naked, or even in a bikini and support the message behind the rides. Some have said they won't do it again until things change, and some, like me, will not do it until things do change.

Which is a shame for everyone. Me, you (the legit photographers amongst you anyway) and spectators. And of course the event organisers.

I appreciate there are a million sides to arguments like this. I am just giving mine. And you have given yours and I've been surprised at how balanced some of the reponses have been. And no doubt (by some of the comments I have seen here) you may be surprised I have responded, published your comments on my blog (including Mike of the OCC who says he is going to jerk off to my naked pics even though there aren't any) and I will continue to publish comments that are useful to the discussion (possibly no more from Mike though).

Works for me, but I still only take close shots if given permission, which happens much more often than not. This is not naturism, this is protest and protests feed on publicity. I think 90% of the close snappers keep shots to themselves, even the guy with 'scaffolding' has not updated his Flikr page in two years and takes about 1000 shots an event and visits at least 4 rides a year!

I even took some for him in 2010:eek:. He asked a very cute girl who had been swimming nude (but rode topless) to take her panties off (she had just slipped them on) and she happily complied for his photos! There are some shots of two clothed female spectators holding his (and his mates:eek:) penis in Hyde park this year too.

EDIT In response to the above post that appeared as I typed mine. I have ridden on about 6 rides over the years as I actually agree with the reason for the ride, I always ride naked too. I take a small cheap camera with me and take general shots, but often with an attractive female in shot. To me, it's a sort of perk! I don't put them on Flikr, just here. I know quite a few of the girls here and many ARE AWARE of being put up on the internet, both on Flikr and adult sites. It's a fact of our times and some find it amusing, not threatening, but I can see some would do.

I wouldn't take offense to that remark. Perhaps I didn't mean quite what i said. I think I was referring to what by your own admission was naiveté on your part (which you did state on your blog).

but I'll just say one more thing - it seems that OCC and "pushy, pervy snappers with iPhones, etc" are being connected in your mind. I don't agree that there is a one to one connection here. We are not the home of the pushy, pervy snappers, with the "respectful" snappers posting their pics somewhere else, like on "respectable" websites. This just isn't so. Just a few years ago, for example, very few WNBR pics posted by OCC members were originals taken by members. Most of the pics came from sites like Flickr, an ordinary photo hosting site. And today, i doubt very seriously if most of the pervy, pushy snappers even know that OCC exists. I can understand how a rider might draw obvious conclusions about what types of people contribute to this site, but the facts speak otherwise. In any WNBR thread, original pics make up a minority of the total posted. This year was an exception, as there was much original material, especially from the UK. But overall, the VAST majority of pics posted here from WNBR over the years has either been taken from responsible websites, or were originals taken by RESPONSIBLE photographers who also happen to be members here.

And so, what I would like to submit to you is this: You were at the ride, and you encountered a lot of disrespectful photographers which is unfortunate and shouldn't happen. I personally don't like these guys, and everyone here knows that I am a CONSTANT advocate for photographers being respectful. Anyway, then somehow a connection was made in your mind between these guys and OCC, as though they were there specifically to take pics for this site or sites like this. And so OCC gets dragged into the debate, and we sort of get to feel like we are all being lumped with the pushy pervy snappers. But where specifically was this connection made, and can you say for certain that this was not more of an implied connection rather than a real one? Because it makes a difference to us naturally, as we have been implicated as co-conspirators if you will in your unfortunate experience. Personally, I don't want ANY woman to have a bad experience at ANY WNBR, and I would work with you all to help make sure that this doesn't happen again. In other words, I will work ON YOUR SIDE and against all of the pervy snappers who supposedly you seem to think we all are.

And hopefully, as one of the earliest contributors of original material to OCC (bike rides anyway), I can say that I speak for the other snappers here. I know I do for many of them.

Klondike

No, I do not think that is acceptable. And I do not think that is what we're doing here. We are documenting the events and sharing pictures that do not focus on genitalia. Furthermore, if you take a closer look at the posts on this forum you will see that it is admiration for the riders that dominates the comments. We do not make fun of or degrade them. As to your example of the redheaded girl: That is totally unacceptable in my honest opinion.

On this site we are respectful.You say that you were surprised that most posts here were quite balanced. It would grace you if you put that on your blog.

yeah, and BTW - I'm off to Seattle and kind of hope I can put this behind me too. I really didn't want to be thinking about this today, but I am. I gotta put it out of my mind...

Klondike

My apologies for that remark - that is not true as you have stated above.

Klondike