Members please read- No pics.

[ygpicfinder]

It's about time .... but it has to look real .. very real .. crap will never sell.... very very real OK then im in

[Fango]

Yes, yes and yes. $5 or so sounds like it would be a reasonable price to pay for something there's not a whole lot of. Hell, I'd pay $15 if you made a Hidden Nudity film. Let us know more about your plans for this.

Fango

[crosis42]

I agree with almost everything Smegol said, especially the part about willing subjects make for poor embarassment. So the problem remains, how do you find people who don't want to be seen naked, but are willing to be naked in a video production. I'm going to mention some of the best "strip game" video clips to try to find a common idea thread...
-strip foosball (was she the only girl at that party???),
-the various Vitamina strip poker vids (I wish I spoke Spanish),
-a couple of the Rasypokka clips (particularly the ones held in public),
-Everything goes (for its time it was good, it wouldn't work quite as well today),
-a couple of the Dog eat Dog games (somewhere in a vault there has to be a copy of the uncensored footage),
-and i'll give a bit of credit to the first 1:41 of drunk strip poker (i wonder if the girl inthat knows how many times her exploits that night have been around the net).

I think the best "games" need to be guy/girl. The presence of a non-playing audience or on-lookers help add to the "sexual tension" of the moment. If the players involved have some familiarity with each other, it helps add to the trash talking aspect of the game. The conversations between the players often adds to the embarassment of the moment. In addition to not wanting to be seen naked, the players should want to see their opponents get naked (or at least act that way).

Selection of "talent" for the video is the key. I've suggested in the past using strippers from some of the more "local" strip clubs (as opposed to big time "G-string Diva" types). Tell them to play the game without their "stripper" personae. The other choice would be to try at a "spring break" location. If you can give them enough incentive to want to win, maybe you could find the girls before they "go wild" for some other video and get them into a game at the local nightclub.

As for the feel of the video, you have 2 choices. Either try to make feel like a "candid" party (tough to do), or do it with a "game show" mentality where the people are aware ofthe camera, but play it to a host or hostess (or one of each).
My idea would be: do it as a gameshow at a bar or club (it makes for better atmosphere), have a variety of games that are quick enough to keep the pace up, but give enough time for adequate "play" between the players, as players end up naked, have them do a quick "dare" and then give them a modest coverup. A small apron or loin cloth would be sufficient (enough to provide some cover, but loose enough to be tugged at from time to time). At the end of the night, all of the naked players (hopefully there would be a good mix of guys and girls) would do a final game for either a good prize or a harsh dare (maybe they have to leave without their clothes).

As for how much male nudity you want to show or how far the dares should go is up to you. If the girls can play it up enough when the guys lose it adds to the tension. IF you show too much explicit nudity either way, it will eventually lose the appeal. If someone is totally exposed unwillingly on camera for an extended period of time it's either staged and consensual, or it's criminal (ya can't have it both ways).

Just a few thoughts.. .but if the video is good, I would definitely pay 5 bucks or so to get a copy.

Good luck, i hope you have success.


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[vidpro]

Hello,

I too own a production company, and we had considered this path before. We have a KILLER script (it's actually very well developed). The problem we have is that we do way too many mainstream productions, and we never devised a good method to release this under a different name. We were afraid it might negatively affect business with our corporate and government clients.

Our company has released edgy titles before, but nothing you might consider 'adult'. However, this script was developed over the past 9 years, and would make an interesting and captivating video. We concentrated on the situations, and not so much on the sexual aspect of it. In fact, the script calls for no actual sex acts. But there would be plenty of nudity and intense ENF situations.

Success of a film like this would depend heavily on the acting performance and the director. I was prepared to step up to the plate in that regard.

In regards to your question about surprising the talent in various scenes, I recommend against it. One thing you can do however, is agree ahead of time that there would be surprises and outline all the parameters they might be subject to. But I would certainly not proceed in that fashion without some sort of understanding between the producers and the talent. There are ways to create a very broad and generalized model release which would encompass these things. But just make sure each of those possibilities are detailed specifically prior to production.

If there's any way I can help with a production like this, let me know. I feel we have an ace of a script, and I would love to produce it. Perhaps one day I will. I just need to find the appropriate means to do so.

Originally Posted by warney59

Hi all,
I have been a member of this forum for a while but I am coming to post now with a question. It may sound obvious but i want to judge people's reactions.
I run a film production company that deals with making short adult films for distribution over the internet by third parties. We currently produce for other sites to sell, but we are looking to make and sell short videos for ourselves.
We have been trying to guage the markets for various types of films, and one of the possibilities is ENF videos. These videos would be professionally shot, made with the elements of ENF (ie. girls tied and left for others, public stripping etc...) It is possible that we would not tell the actors what was going to happen to them to give it a more realistic element. The videos would be made by us with our story lines, but there is an option for people to pay a small fee and have their ideal video made for sale if we think it is a good enough story.
The videos would be sold through our production website, be about 10-15 minutes long, and be sold as downloads. They would retail about £5 (or $7) and you would be able to use these downloads to burn to DVD or watch on your computer.
Having been a member here for a while I think I know what you guys and girls like, but ideas and discussions from the people who would be looking at the videos would always be welcome.
What i would like to know from you is if there is a market? Would people be willing to try a few downloads that they knew were ENF based and contained real(ish) situations?
I am sorry if this is the wrong place for this, and Alex please feel free to move/delete etc... if this post is not acceptable. However, it would be greatly appreciated if people would take the time to give their thoughts. We have enjoyed success with other adult ventures that we have tried, but would like a more neiche market that we don't think is really catered for. The money is there, the time is there, the equipment is there. But is the interest there?
Feel free to ask any questions or give your views.
Thanks for your time!

[photomanva]

Willing to pay - willing to contribute ideas

[warney59]

Well, looks like we might be getting somewhere with this. The initial response has been great and I the reason i brought it up on this board was that people are able to say what they want and don't want in videos. If you guys and girls are going to pay for something that appeals to your turn-on then it damn well better be what you want! I know that many people I have talked to, and it has been brought up in this post, look round for this kind of stuff and then get disappointed when second rate productions come out with no real ENF moments.

I agree with what most people say here. We would look to produce situations that are real enough to be sexy, but with actresses that are not so over the top with their "embarrassment" they look fake. I am looking to move this idea forward next week, as long as the figures back up the idea! Blasted accounts people always want to see the money before they make the leap.

VidPro- I know what you mean about not wanting to take the jump with a mainstream production company. We are lucky that we have two offices, under two names. One deals with our productions for football clubs, short films and mainstream productions, the other deals with our adult side. We have produced for Playboy, The Range Rover Production Co. and some adult film channels. I must say that when we first went into this area we did lose mainstream clients as they felt it was not something they wanted to become associated with. I think it is important to keep the two sides seperate and try and have different names and locations. Also, I agree with your view that a full disclosure must be sought to keep the peace with the actors. It is one of the things that makes true ENF films difficult, but is something that we feel we can work around to make a good run of films.

Keep up the ideas, and if there are any specific areas you would like to see, or things that you all can't stand in films, then let me know. You can PM me on this forum, or send an e-mail. I shall read all that is said, especially if they are as indepth and thought out as smegol12's post. Hopefully if we decide to go ahead in this area we will have something in production within 6-8 weeks. I think we may even make the first download free for OCC members. That may be something we can sort out at the time. It is important to get the fanbase and show people it is worth spending a few bucks.

Thanks again.

[kopema]

Originally Posted by Helmhood

If you want some feeback from a business end, with regard to how my film "Babysitting Without a Net" (see thread below) is doing, feel free to pm me or e‑mail me!

Without asking to see your tax returns or anything, I think a lot of us would like to know: did you recoup your investment yet?

People who don't have much money - well - just don't have much money. And people who do have money didn't get that way by throwing it away. The bottom line is that no matter how much you like this stuff, I'm sure you can't keep producing it if it's hemorrhaging money.

So how's about a ballpark here? Losing your shirt? Breaking even so you can keep up the hobby as long as your interest holds? Or is there a potential money‑making industry here?

I understand no one in any business wants to give away proprietary information, but I seriously doubt that anybody in the adult film industry is going to compete with your work anytime soon. And as has been mentioned here, mainstream film makers will avoid this like the plague. Although the comparison is a twisted one, there is about as little chance that Hollyweird will start mass‑producing ENF films as there is that they will rush to steal a piece of Mel Gibson's billion‑dollar "niche" market. Even if they tried, they'd screw it up beyond recognition.

Oh, and call me a maniac, but if there are studios out there with the facilities and people in place; and there are producers (e.g, you) who don't mind having their names associated with this kind of project ‑‑ then why the heck don't you people MAKE A DEAL??? Why would a studio need to set up a shell organization when there's already somebody out there? On the books, you can basically "rent out" their services under your name. The studio's name doesn't have to be on the project at all. And there's no reason a producer has to finance the whole thing out of his pocket; the compensation can include any amount of profit sharing the parties want.

[vidpro]

Originally Posted by kopema

Oh, and call me a maniac, but if there are studios out there with the facilities and people in place; and there are producers (e.g, you) who don't mind having their names associated with this kind of project ‑‑ then why the heck don't you people MAKE A DEAL??? Why would a studio need to set up a shell organization when there's already somebody out there? On the books, you can basically "rent out" their services under your name. The studio's name doesn't have to be on the project at all. And there's no reason a producer has to finance the whole thing out of his pocket; the compensation can include any amount of profit sharing the parties want.

You have interesting points. I'd like to offer some insight based on my own experiences. It's true (and actually normal) that the producer usually doesn't finance these projects (at least entirely). However, the difficult aspects of assembling a production like this are:

Finding the funds. This sounds like it might be easy, but in order to find the funds... you have to shop the idea around. And, in doing so, can cause problems with your regular clientele if word gets out about the project.

Finding Talent. As an established studio, I can certainly find talent very easily. However, if I don't want my studio name on a project, it's a lot more difficult to find talent when they've never heard of you or can't verify who you are. When we do casting calls for various projects we get a ton of response simply because we have an established history of production. A film of this type is a delicate thing to produce. We've done similar, but non-nude projects and even those sometimes cause problems for us with our client base.

Employees. Not everybody who works at a studio might feel comfortable with such a project. Perhaps they are comfortable with the concept, but working closely with all these people they know on such a project might make them uneasy. Everything from brainstorming to issuing directives to the cast and crew can become challenging with such a tender subject.

Locations. For a project like this, and to make it believable, the locations need to sometimes be public. Finding a place to shoot (even for a "normal" production) can be challening. Finding a location to shoot publically but at the same time restrict access to the general public AND work with the story would be a real challenge.

Distribution. I know from years of experience that this is where the money is. Finding good solid distribution for a project like this will be difficult. You need major backing to get this out there. You need a company who has the means to manufacture and publish large quantities of the finished product. Then, the product needs to be marketed so people know about it, and where to buy it. It's not imporssible, but I suspect various distributors might shy away from this type of film.


I am not trying to be Mr. Negative. I'm just pointing out obsticles that I've had to overcome in the past for various projects. I recommend for a project such as this:

No sex, or at least non-graphic sex.

Compelling storyline which will help justify it's existence.

Quality production value.

Because distribution might be challenging, consider selling the finished product to a subscription cable network (showtime, for example.) If the quality is decent (or average), sometimes they pay $250,000 to $350,000 for exclusive rights to broadcast the film.

[vidpro]

Originally Posted by warney59

VidPro- I know what you mean about not wanting to take the jump with a mainstream production company. We are lucky that we have two offices, under two names. One deals with our productions for football clubs, short films and mainstream productions, the other deals with our adult side. We have produced for Playboy, The Range Rover Production Co. and some adult film channels. I must say that when we first went into this area we did lose mainstream clients as they felt it was not something they wanted to become associated with. I think it is important to keep the two sides seperate and try and have different names and locations. Also, I agree with your view that a full disclosure must be sought to keep the peace with the actors. It is one of the things that makes true ENF films difficult, but is something that we feel we can work around to make a good run of films.

Did you begin your company with two groups, or did you branch off the adult stuff at a later date? If later, how difficult was that transition? I'd be interested in hearing about your experience on making both studios productive without creating conflict. We have two offices as well, but they are both under the same name.

The acting and the directing is what is going to make a good ENF film. I'm interested in hearing about how your production proceeds. Depending on the scope of the project, I think you may need more pre-production time than you outlined. Finding the right cast will be essential, and finding the right storyline will drive the whole thing. I think that's going to take some serious time to do it right.

I'm genuinely curious about this because we have considered doing this before. Would you be shooting on film or video? Would it mostly be studio shoots, or location shoots? I guess I'm interested to see how big of a scope the production would be. Do you have a target for distribution (online vs. retail vs. cable)?

I wish you well with this project. Although I believe it will be challenging, I think if done correctly the end result could generate a good return on investment.

[vidpro]

Originally Posted by warney59

The videos would be sold through our production website, be about 10-15 minutes long, and be sold as downloads. They would retail about £5 (or $7) and you would be able to use these downloads to burn to DVD or watch on your computer.

Ooops... my bad. I overlooked this. I was thinking you were talking about a feature length film. Sorry for the misunderstanding.